I Need Some Help

[pryde]

Agree with midway. Start breadboarding asap.

Start with the super-simple electra distortion circuit and experiment with adding different types of tone stacks, multi-clipping options, treble-cut switches, input/output caps, on and on...

I started breadboarding only 6 months ago with this method and learned A TON from from that sweet little circuit. Although I am still quite novice, I can BB some moderate-complexity circuits and tweak em for fun 

Good luck

[jkokura]

I'm sorry if I were a wet blanket, I didn't mean to be. But in many cases, what we've seen in the past is people asking for help designing a circuit or modding a circuit that they don't yet understand. What I'd rather see is people asking for help understanding a circuit so they can learn to modify it and get satisfying results themselves - and there's no substitute to learning on the job. Teach a man to fish and all that.

What I'd do is look up the schematics for the Bluesbreaker and the Marshall Drivemaster. If you compare the circuits, you'll see a lot of similarities, but some differences. Learn how to breadboard each, learn how they both work, and then come up with your own combination circuit. Modify that, and you'll be well on the way to what you're asking about.

Jacob

[atreidesheir]

Isn' t the Glitterati http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Glitterrattii/docs/Glitterrattii.pdf
already pretty close to what the OP is asking for.  The schem seems pretty close to Bluesbreaker and I always heard the "BB" was a bluesbreaker hint. 
And  my first thought about the mids switch was the AMZ presence control would be a much easier beginner fix than a switch.  like in the old (4 button) mudbunny project.
http://www.muzique.com/lab/tone3.htm

[raulduke]

I agree; get the breadboard out and have some fun (start with an electra as pryde recommended).

The idea is the easy part.... the hard part is the exectuion, and the only way to achieve it is to build it up yourself and learn the circuit.

Good luck dude!

[thetrend77]

Sorry I haven't responded too quickly, but I really do appreciate all the tips. I DO have a breadboard and I'll probably try to tackle a bluesbreaker some time soon.

The main reason for this topic in the first place is because I want to make something that's mine and not just a "put these parts here" project like most PCB's. Also, the reason I chose a BB is because it's one of the flavors of drive I don't own. I have plenty TS variants, so I don't want to mod that.

The issues I have is that I just barely understand certain things (related to pedals/schematics, that is lol). I can read schematics, but I can't tell you what each part does, where the tone stack begins/ends, etc. Like with that treb/bass control link I posted, I wouldn't know where to insert that into an existing schematic. I see that it has an in and out on it, but the thing that confuses me is that an existing circuit already has an in and out, so where would I insert the tone mod?

Anyway, I know this is a lot of jibber jabber (I'm just typing as things come to mind lol), but those are most of the issues I have with modifying circuits. I know I'm trying to start out a bit on the difficult side, but I learn quickly, I assure you!

Thanks for any tips or help you all have provided or will provide!!

[midwayfair]

the thing that confuses me is that an existing circuit already has an in and out, so where would I insert the tone mod?

You can attach the "in" of that tone circuit anywhere in the audio path that could otherwise be an output. How do you know what works? When you've got the circuit on the breadboard, take the output wire and start sticking it places. Look at other circuits and see where they place their tone circuits. You'll start to see patterns in where they are placed. Hint: look at the datasheet for a dual op amp and see how the pins are labeled.

If you want to learn how the basic snippets of any given circuit works, circle it and ask questions about it. Read all of RG Keen's Geofx site. Read the learning threads on Beavis Audio. Those are two resources I refer to constantly, even if I'm already familiar with a circuit. There's also a thread somewhere on here of "reading material for book learning" or some such. And, I can't stress this enough, datasheets are a big help.

p.s. Note that I've demured from telling you how to just do the mod for the same reasons everyone described above. Once you've expressed a desire to create something or modify it substantially, there is no substitute for hands-on experience, research, study, and a trusty online calculator that fixes an inability to work with numbers (er, well, I need the last one, but others might not). It takes time and it's not as easy as the paint-by-numbers of following someone else's schematic or building on a PCB, but it's HUGELY rewarding.

And then comes that certain point where something clicks and you'll almost go nuts from having so many ideas for mods and variations and new circuits you can't build them all fast enough.

[thetrend77]

p.s. Note that I've demured from telling you how to just do the mod for the same reasons everyone described above. Once you've expressed a desire to create something or modify it substantially, there is no substitute for hands-on experience, research, study, and a trusty online calculator that fixes an inability to work with numbers (er, well, I need the last one, but others might not).

No, I totally understand this. I appreciate it, actually.

But as far as me not understanding schematics, what I don't understand is how to find out which part of the schematic does what. Like on this image:



Is the red part the tone stack or the blue (I know the top part of the schematic is attached to the VR's)? Or is it something else entirely? These are the kinds of things I don't understand about schematics lol

[midwayfair]

Is the red part the tone stack or the blue (I know the top part of the schematic is attached to the VR's)? Or is it something else entirely? These are the kinds of things I don't understand about schematics lol

It's a series resistor, right?

Do you understand the blue part -- not necessarily EXACTLY what it's doing? Try to work out what each component there might be doing. Type it out.

Then we'll come back to the red part.

Mods, if any of you read this, can we move it to the "How Do I?" subforum? It seems more appropriate there.

[thetrend77]

Mods, if any of you read this, can we move it to the "How Do I?" subforum? It seems more appropriate there.

Yes please, I apologize for the placement of the topic.


As far as the blue section, I'm assuming the caps going to VR are some sort of filters and the resistor connected to the middle lug on the tone pot is limiting some of the filtering on C8?

I might be totally wrong though haha

[Vallhagen]

... I want to make something that's mine and not just a "put these parts here"

[...]

The issues I have is that I just barely understand certain things

[...]

Thanks for any tips or help you all have provided or will provide!!

And my hint would be: I agree with the posts above.

I wont, by no means, take you down, but your quote above: "I want..." vs "I just barely..." makes a bit of an equation with no solution today. You have to learn how those parts really work; what this resistor do and what that cap does... to be able to design something that you really can call "your own".

After all; If some of the gurus here (there are many helpful dudes for sure!) tell you exactly how to implement a tonestack with given values in your OD circuit... then its not your own design either, is it? It would be just another "put these parts here"-thing

So... get that breadboard out as said...

another hint is to do some digital simulation. Try some Spice software (i myself run Tina-TI, others run LTspice or 5Spice)

Also: download the ToneStack calculator: http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/ , and play with it. Change values, breadboard the result!

Also: Read here: http://ampbooks.com/home/amp-technology/james-tonestack-analysis/, great site with deep facts.


I myself know quite a bit about electronics and physics in general. Even so, i find myself with 10 new questions a day. Some of them can be answerred through some google- n madbean-browsing... some of them i ask here. It's a fun world with an endless amount of questions and facts:)

Now i hope i dont sound too "boring". As said, i have no intention to take you down. But sometimes there really arent simple short cuts:)


Good luck! And dont forget to have fun:)

[thetrend77]

... I want to make something that's mine and not just a "put these parts here"

[...]

The issues I have is that I just barely understand certain things

[...]

Thanks for any tips or help you all have provided or will provide!!

And my hint would be: I agree with the posts above.

I wont, by no means, take you down, but your quote above: "I want..." vs "I just barely..." makes a bit of an equation with no solution today. You have to learn how those parts really work; what this resistor do and what that cap does... to be able to design something that you really can call "your own".

After all; If some of the gurus here (there are many helpful dudes for sure!) tell you exactly how to implement a tonestack with given values in your OD circuit... then its not your own design either, is it? It would be just another "put these parts here"-thing

So... get that breadboard out as said...

another hint is to do some digital simulation. Try some Spice software (i myself run Tina-TI, others run LTspice or 5Spice)

Also: download the ToneStack calculator: http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/ , and play with it. Change values, breadboard the result!

Also: Read here: http://ampbooks.com/home/amp-technology/james-tonestack-analysis/, great site with deep facts.


I myself know quite a bit about electronics and physics in general. Even so, i find myself with 10 new questions a day. Some of them can be answerred through some google- n madbean-browsing... some of them i ask here. It's a fun world with an endless amount of questions and facts:)

Now i hope i dont sound too "boring". As said, i have no intention to take you down. But sometimes there really arent simple short cuts:)


Good luck! And dont forget to have fun:)

I just want to learn so that I CAN do it...

[midwayfair]

As far as the blue section, I'm assuming the caps going to VR are some sort of filters

Good. Do you understand what KIND of filter that is? As in, a cap to ground = what kind of tonal change? How does changing the cap value change the tone? What happens if you add a resistor to the mix?

These are questions that you could answer with reading, and you might know some of the answers already, but you also need to HEAR what they do, so, when you breadboard the circuit, answer them through experimentation.

and the resistor connected to the middle lug on the tone pot is limiting some of the filtering on C8?

Good again.

Now: What's the pot doing?

[thetrend77]

As far as the blue section, I'm assuming the caps going to VR are some sort of filters

Good. Do you understand what KIND of filter that is?

Some sort of high/low pass filter probably?

These are questions that you could answer with reading, and you might know some of the answers already, but you also need to HEAR what they do, so, when you breadboard the circuit, answer them through experimentation.

Yeah, I'm not home at the moment but I'll definitely do some breadboarding when I get the chance.

and the resistor connected to the middle lug on the tone pot is limiting some of the filtering on C8?

Good again.

Now: What's the pot doing?

I have no idea lol. Just a guess: controlling the amount of input signal that goes through the caps and the VR section?

[alanp]

But as far as me not understanding schematics, what I don't understand is how to find out which part of the schematic does what. Like on this image:

I'd say R5-C8 are a simple filter (low pass), while R3+Tone-C5 are a tune-able lowpass filter before it.

I have been known to be 'orribly wrong before though.