TC Electronic

[jkokura]

So...

I saw this on Facebook this morning: http://www.tcelectronic.com/flashback-x4-delay.asp

My first response looking at it was... "Wait, didn't Line 6 do this very same thing like 15 years ago?"

Jacob

[culturejam]

I think this is going to be better than the DL-4...as it should be since it's a decade+ newer.

I'm not buying any more of their Toneprint stuff until they release a software editor. It's got to happen at some point.

[greyscales]

Vox did a similar thing recently as well. Clearly everyone wants a piece of the multi-delay pie.

[jtn191]

I've never played one but the only bad thing I've heard about DL-4s were reliability & footswitch issues. I like what I've heard and bands that I love use em.

When you think about it, the flashback was kind of rehashing the echo park. I think everyone (Vox, JHS, TC) is stepping up their delay game to compete with Strymon

[culturejam]

I repaired a DM4 faulty footswitch. It's just like the DL4.

They are set up odd. The footswitch itself is actually not a switch at all. It's spring-mounted plunger that taps on a momentary tactile switch mounted on the PCB. Eventually the plunger wears out and doesn't hit the  tactile anymore. And you can't buy those pluger-switch things anywhere that I know of.

So what I did was desolder/remove the tactile switch and just mounted a standard SPST momentary footswitch on the enclosure. I wired the footswitch in the same manner the tactile was. And it worked great.

[Om_Audio]

Oh man I am totally into it. I love the DL-4 but really dislike certain aspects of it. Overall the sound is cloudy, etc.. I love the ease of use and preset ability. Looper is great and easy to use. It really is a good product. Lazy as hell of them to not update it ever though IMO.
I am also a big looping fan- I have Jam Man (orig w maxed zip dimm chips or whatever), Echoplex digital pro, Eventide Timefactor, etc.
If it did same thing as DL4 but with better sound and some tape-like adjustment abilities (TimeFactor is awesome at this- octaves, 5ths, 7ths, smooth- all non destructive and just like tape) I would be sold.
I am on list for couple of these also so me and a bandmate can make synced loops. You can have either one be master without having to touch them- so either one of us could start a loop and the other can make synced loops afterwards.
http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=4621
C

[Om_Audio]

I have used these for years and a friend also. All I ever had to do was solder a power jack once and as for the switches, just stretching the spring out a bit was all it ever took to get them operating like new again.
C

I repaired a DM4 faulty footswitch. It's just like the DL4.

They are set up odd. The footswitch itself is actually not a switch at all. It's spring-mounted plunger that taps on a momentary tactile switch mounted on the PCB. Eventually the plunger wears out and doesn't hit the  tactile anymore. And you can't buy those pluger-switch things anywhere that I know of.

So what I did was desolder/remove the tactile switch and just mounted a standard SPST momentary footswitch on the enclosure. I wired the footswitch in the same manner the tactile was. And it worked great.

[jkokura]

I'm sure it will be 'better' than the DL4 was/is, but it's not that much of an update. Truthfully, it doesn't compete with the Timeline or Timefactor for me.

Think about it:
3 presets plus a tap switch (same as the DL4)
About 16 types of delays (Same as the DL4)
It's about the same size, weight and configuration as the DL4)
Built in looper (Same as the DL4)
Stereo in, Stereo out, plus an expression in/out

But it does have (over the DL4)
Midi in and thru
Toneprints
...

That's it really. Obviously you're getting the TC Electronic take on delay algorithims instead of Line 6, I just think that these guys didn't think this through enough! There's no banks of delay patches, there's nothing mindblowing or revolutionary... all for the same price.

I say, if you're going to get into the game, at least do something new or set yourself apart.

Jacob

[Om_Audio]

You make some good points. Surprising no banks or user presets.
As for MIDI, my biggest frustration w Timefactor is MIDI is irrelevant in loop mode which was =almost= a deal breaker for me once I discovered it. If the X4 is able to make a loop conform to incoming MIDI clock or send MIDI clock based on loop you create that will be a plus for me.
Sound quality alone could be worth the upgrade for some, I know when I got the TF I was so relieved to hear things clearly and without all that cloudiness I get from DL4.
C

But it does have (over the DL4)
Midi in and thru
Toneprints

Jacob

[midwayfair]

Toneprints

To be fair, this is a ridiculously powerful advantage, especially now that you can beam toneprints into the pedal through your guitar strings with your phone. This is almost like having midi-accessible delay plugins for live sound, potentially enabling a guitarist to use the "perfect" sound for each song. You don't need banks of patches if you can set up your set list on a mobile device and work through them in seconds.

This won't be fully realized without the software editor, though. I think if they did release a software editor they'd destroy a lot of competition, but let's not forget that limiting access allows them to sell expertise; once you get to editable software, R&D costs can't be justified to buyers and all the past money spent goes down the drain. It's reasonable from a business perspective, but frustrating for the way it limits the potential of their own technology and damaging in the long term. Eventually someone else will capture this part of the market. "Protecting" is always a losing business strategy compared to innovating.

[jkokura]

Certainly, I recognize the Algorithms are likely much better. But quite frankly, I've been reading around that people have been waiting and asking for this from TC Electroic. It seems like such a let down to those who wanted more (to my mind) compared to what's been available for years already. Banks and presets aren't that much harder to do than Toneprints, and if the price point was 25-50 bucks more because of it, it'd be a no brainer.

The Mobile phone thing is cool yes, but is it actually useful for a gigging musician or is it a bedroom trick?  And yes, software could change the game, but it's still not gonna make me excited - I'd still want/need more than they're offering here.

What I will admit that is for the average kid out there looking for a new/first delay tool, this is awesome. Not much more than a Boss DD7, same price as a DL4. More options than the former, sounds better than the latter. Plus, all those teens obsessed with their cells are in heaven.

Excuse my cynicism, I'm a bit of a critic I guess. I got cynical with TC when they started releasing 'special ambient' versions of the Flashback/Reverb pedals. The artist versions of their pedals also seem gimmicky to me. It's like they have the 'danelectro' side to their company with these pedals, but the real side to the company is still putting out the G-series stuff for real gigging musicians.

Jacob

[jtn191]

I'm with you Jacob, I think toneprints are a gimmick currently. An in-depth editing mode on a computer or within the pedal would make an amazing delay.

ps: imo danelectro are awesome! their products are cheap but quality. I have the Daddy-o overdrive and it's pretty underrated. a Guvnor for 15-30 bucks!

[Om_Audio]

The separate loop/delay sections w/ independent volumes is cool, and the toggle to get in and out of loop is cool too. Undo on loop is cool. 40 secs full res is cool. BUT, not seeing any reverse or half speed. Pfft. Man, 2 steps forward one step back. Or 2 steps forward, 2 steps back.

[culturejam]

just stretching the spring out a bit was all it ever took to get them operating like new again.

When I got the pedal, the whole footswitch had been removed. So I had to do something. 

[Om_Audio]