Not feuding with the neighbors (sigh)

[pickdropper]

^^ lol! Time to break out the bagpipes?

I used to live in an apartment building with a guy who played bagpipes.  I really liked having him there as nobody complained about my guitar playing as long as he was around.

[Ettore_M]

That's really awful, Jon. To be at your own house, and not to be able to play your music, because of your silly neighbours. I say silly, because this is too much! They call the cops?? For what? For listening to nice music.. Truly? I feel sorry for them (in a bad way )...

Hector

[GermanCdn]

Bad neighbors suck.  You've tried the diplomatic route, time to buy a drumset and not learn to play it, but not learn it passionately right up until the time the local noise bylaw says you should be reasonably quiet.

If it makes you fell any better, I live next door to hoarders who insist on putting the garbage they can't fit inside their house between their house and ours (the skunks like living under it), have four cars which they end up parking partially on my driveway (or even better across) because their garage is full of crap, their 32 year old live at home son (whose 4 years younger than me) insists on revving the engine of his POS mustang at 2am everyday, and generally they bring the value of my house down.  When I move out, I'm pulling all the valve stems off their tires.

[spaceboss]

I take it that you only own the duplex half you live in? I.E. They are not your renters.

That situation sucks.

( Edit: Never mind. Read the rest of the thread.)

And honestly if they called the fuzz in, without even talking to you, over an acoustic guitar, I wouldn't worry about pleasing them.

Look up the city codes for decibel levels in adjoining structures at different times of day. Then get a decibel meter. If you are in compliance, tough luck for them. Show the 5-0 your readings if they are called again.

[jubal81]

Look up the city codes for decibel levels in adjoining structures at different times of day. Then get a decibel meter. If you are in compliance, tough luck for them. Show the 5-0 your readings if they are called again.

Yep. I agree. It's obvious they aren't going to be civil no matter what. Just hold to 'my legal right,' and be able to back it up. Once you go that route they can't complain, they can only move out.

[pickdropper]

Look up the city codes for decibel levels in adjoining structures at different times of day. Then get a decibel meter. If you are in compliance, tough luck for them. Show the 5-0 your readings if they are called again.

Yep. I agree. It's obvious they aren't going to be civil no matter what. Just hold to 'my legal right,' and be able to back it up. Once you go that route they can't complain, they can only move out.

I agree, too.  If you feel like meeting in the middle, then you could consider finding a time frame during the day where they will agree not to pound on the walls when you play.

If that doesn't work, then just fall back on the legality of it.  An acoustic guitar should be nowhere near the SPL limit during waking hours. 

It isn't reasonable for them to ask that you stop playing altogether, even if they find it annoying.

[aballen]

Actually that's great news.  Now you crank up the electric at 5pm,  make sure they call the cops again.  If you are really lucky you will get the same cops, and then you tell them you were just playing your acoustic, this time in the basement.  Neighbor looses all credibility...

Being the better man you ask if there is some way you can work out some kind of schedule.. Max volume etc.  with the officers present, explaining that you are fortunate enough to be a practicing musician an do of course need to practice your craft.

At that point you get one of two things from your neighbor.  A reasonable compromise, in which case everyone is happy... Or an unreasonable response, in which case your neighbor looses what credibility he has left and police will stop responding to your neighbors calls


Not very nice, but if they are determined to hate you, I say embrace it.

[wgc]

Agree in principle, but in practice I think it's worth some effort to reach an amicable agreement.

Not getting along with someone that lives right next door puts a bad vibe on almost every aspect of your time at home.  (ask me how I know that.)

That said, it takes two to tango.

I'd suggest inviting them over for coffee with the intent of discussing how you can pursue your music with minimal disruption to them.  If they continue to be unreasonable, then there's little else you can do to be considerate.  you have constitutional rights as a homeowner, and they may very well be guilty of harrassing you.

Good luck!  I used to jam at a friends house as a teen and the neighbors would call the cops as soon as I pulled in the driveway.  Never once did the cops find us to be a problem, and a few told us we could feel free to be louder.

[jkokura]

I had the first complaint against us in our apartment building this week. We live on the top floor of a 3 floor building with 10 apartments (flats) per floor. It's a two bedroom, and while spacious comparatively, it's still small. Every once in a while we turn our 3 and 1 year old loose on the hallway, where they screech and wail with glee up and down for 15 minutes or so.

Got a complaint about letting them do that at about 7PM the other night.

Usually we have no noise issues here. They were smart when they designed these places, and the living room/kitchens all share a wall with another living room/kitchen, and the one bedroom/bathroom with another bedroom/bathroom - so the end result is that if there's noise you can go to another area in the apartment and escape it.

I haven't had a neighbour quite so belligerent as yours, but I've certainly had noisy neighbours who I've had issue with - but usually it's cranked stereos or loud fighting at 2 AM...

Jacob

[midwayfair]

Now you crank up the electric at 5pm,  make sure they call the cops again.  If you are really lucky you will get the same cops, and then you tell them you were just playing your acoustic, this time in the basement.  Neighbor looses all credibility...

This is a horrible idea. Lying to the cops is not a good thing.

The neighbor and I have exchanged letters in the past. His position was not to play my electric loudly. My position was that I limit my electric playing to at most a few hours a week and that it is not louder than the acoustic for any extended period of time. I explained to him that I derive part of my income from music and that I would not stop playing completely. He offered no further reply.

I will most likely get a decibel meter, note the decibel rating (which I already know is not loud enough to actually violate noise ordinances), and inform him that if he continues to call the cops on me for something he's been duly informed is not a violation of noise ordinances, that I will file a harrassment claim. I work for a law office. A legal battle costs me absolutely nothing.

[culturejam]

I will file a harrassment claim. I work for a law office. A legal battle costs me absolutely nothing.

This.

Nothing shuts an asshole up faster than the scent of legal trouble from somebody who knows how the legal system works.

You've been more than generous in your attempts to compromise with these idiots. If they give you any more shit, get serious with them.

[Cortexturizer]

What a discussion! I feel for you midwayfair.

I've lived in a couple of apartments over the past several years, and it's really surprising how little complaints I have got. I basically play my guitar very loud. Need the amp cooking a little to see how your fuzz face slays it? no problem. Let's do that for an hour. Put all your modulation effects in a true bypass looper with feedback loop, hit the feedback switch and then wiggle the pots on the pedals for like...an hour? No problems whatsoever.
Looks I am living a dream.
I am always on the last floor though. But someone told me that the vibrations are transmited best through the floor onto the ceilings of neighbours. What's even weirder is that my landlord and his family lives in the apartment just below my apartment. They are certainly not deaf, their kids are of my age. I really can't understand how can I keep doing what I do without any complaints.

Hope your situation resolves quickly midwayfair, I'm cheering for you [for the amount of loudness vouched by the state law, and a little extra haha].

[Effectsiation]

I just wanted to focus for a moment on the "consideration" aspect of this whole thing, which I feel frequently gets lost in these kinds of discussions (as we're all your target audience as musicians/builders):

- You are inconveniencing them (not the other way around), so that you can get what you want (and have things your way)
- You chose to be a musician/builder and take up this specialty line of work (noise comes with the territory)
- You also chose to purchase a home that is attached (a consideration, although possibly a financial decision)

So, don't get me wrong, I feel you on this one, but I think that this is something you should have anticipated to some degree. I think you are doing the right thing by building an isolation booth or doing any kind of noise proofing. Its your path/hobby, and you have to pay to play. Attached living spaces are not your kingdom, they're not private, they are a solution for some people's situations.  If they were affordable and close enough to profitable jobs, I think we'd all be living in Fully Detached housing with huge basement studios.

For reference, I live in an end-unit Townhouse, but I'm lucky that my neighbors are a couple that is a cop and an EMT (they are always gone at night). However, I exchanged phone numbers with him, and he sends me text messages about any consideration issues (parties he is throwing that might be noisy, parking space issues, etc...) and I send him the same.

Anyway, I do feel your pain, and hope you can come to a resolution.   

[spaceboss]

I could not disagree more strongly. In this case they are inconveniencing him. Calling the police over an acoustic guitar, which is not louder than a television is an inconvenience--to put it mildly.

If he was playing the guitar loudly or at odd hours you'd have a point, but he is operating under the confines of the law. They are interfering with his ability to use his property for lawful means within the limits of applicable ordinances.

If they have special needs, work odd hours--it is their responsibility to talk to him about that--and his choice to accommodate them.

If they call the police, a paramilitary organization, to complain without talking to Jon first: They lose the benefit of the doubt, and accommodation for the sake of politeness.

If he chooses to may an iso booth, at this point, it should be because the constant conflict is unpleasant--not because they deserve it.

I just wanted to focus for a moment on the "consideration" aspect of this whole thing, which I feel frequently gets lost in these kinds of discussions (as we're all your target audience as musicians/builders):

- You are inconveniencing them (not the other way around), so that you can get what you want (and have things your way)
- You chose to be a musician/builder and take up this specialty line of work (noise comes with the territory)
- You also chose to purchase a home that is attached (a consideration, although possibly a financial decision)

So, don't get me wrong, I feel you on this one, but I think that this is something you should have anticipated to some degree. I think you are doing the right thing by building an isolation booth or doing any kind of noise proofing. Its your path/hobby, and you have to pay to play. Attached living spaces are not your kingdom, they're not private, they are a solution for some people's situations.  If they were affordable and close enough to profitable jobs, I think we'd all be living in Fully Detached housing with huge basement studios.

For reference, I live in an end-unit Townhouse, but I'm lucky that my neighbors are a couple that is a cop and an EMT (they are always gone at night). However, I exchanged phone numbers with him, and he sends me text messages about any consideration issues (parties he is throwing that might be noisy, parking space issues, etc...) and I send him the same.

Anyway, I do feel your pain, and hope you can come to a resolution.   

[culturejam]

If he was playing the guitar loudly or at odd hours you'd have a point, but he is operating under the confines of the law. They are interfering with his ability to use his property for lawful means within the limits of applicable ordinances.

Totally agree. He's acting within the existing parameters of the local laws, so it's got nothing to do with the idea that it's his "choice" to be a musician. So long as midway is playing his guitar, or watching his television, or farting below the max noise limit, the neighbors have no valid claims for a disturbance.

He's living next to a couple of ne'er-do-well douchebags that are, quite likely, behaving in a way that would legally be classified as harassment. They are making false claims to the police, which is generally a no-no.