Not feuding with the neighbors (sigh)

[midwayfair]

I need some advice, because I know that plenty of people here live in small apartments or have dealt with similar situations in the past.

So my wife and I bought a house three years ago. It's a duplex, which  and things have finally reached a head with my neighbor, who bangs on the wall basically any time I pick up an instrument now. I don't think I play that loud: My amp is about the volume of my singing voice (which also draws complaints), and it's well below the level it's set at even for restaurant shows. in response to his previous complaints, I've now basically limited any guitar playing at a volume above a speaking voice or TV to the hour I come home from work, and not even every day. Apparently this is still too much for him.

I've lived in apartments and never had an issue like this. I'd expect someone to complain if I went on for hours, or if I were actually playing much louder than an acoustic guitar, but I really don't know what to do when even an acoustic guitar is apparently too loud. I can't just never use my amp. I'm actually fortunate enough to play live and I need to know what things sound like. I also need to practice singing (because frankly I need it), and it's hardly practical or possible to practice proper singing technique at a whisper.

I've asked some people about this, and even though they're my friends and I'd expect them to take my side, they all basically say the same thing: Well, you're playing at a reasonable hour, the volume doesn't seem unreasonable, your neighbor needs thicker skin, etc. Baltimore City has a hopelessly vague noise ordinance law (no decibel level or quiet hours specified), so I'm stuck with some sort of reasonable person standard. Maryland does have a noise ordinance with something like 65dB as a daytime limit -- given that there's at least 15 feet involved, if I'm playing around 85dB, an online calculator puts me at ~60dB without even factoring in the intervening wall. So I already am fairly confident that I'm not violating ordinances or likely to get fined.

I have no desire to go to war with my neighbors and we planned on keeping this house for the rest of our lives. But I really have no idea how to further compromise with him.

I'd love any advice you guys can give.

[murdog47]

http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/sound-dampening-curtain-sound-dampening-blankets-sound-control-blanket.aspx

[culturejam]

Have you had a sit-down with the neighbor and explain what you are playing and why? He/she/they might be more understanding if they understood why you were "making all that noise". But maybe you've already done this.

If you really do plan to stay there forever, I would recommend two courses of action, one short-term and one long-term:

Short: as murdog linked, check out some soundproofing options. And focus on moving your gear into the room/space that is furthest away from the adjoining wall with the neighbor. Unless the neighbor is above or below you, in which case that would change the soundproofing strategy.

Long: consider buying the other half of the duplex. Then you could either rent it out only to cool musicians or people who are tolerant to normal levels of sound, or you could knock out the wall and double your space. I know this sounds extreme, but it is possible if it is something you really want to do.

[midwayfair]

thanks for the link, murdog. I'm looking at doing the soundproofing right now.

I think if I move my amp to a corner of the basement, I only have to build a little booth and do two "walls" (the open space in front of me) and the ceiling in the 3.2mm to get it to probably television levels, then I can get a second layer later when I can afford it.

It's an excuse to get on with finishing the basement like I had originally planned when we bought the house. There's a sofa down there that we squeezed in when we were first moving but can't get out. Heh.

[madbean]

People who bang on walls because they think you are being too loud are not likely to be too reasonable in my experience. I had a similar situation once with a crazy neighbor who would stomp on the floor at the slightest disturbance. Fortunately she finally got kicked out for never paying her rent.

The only advice I can offer is to try and talk to the person first to work out a solution. Then if the behavior continues file a police report stating that the person is harassing you. Write down the time and date of every instance they bang on the wall and include that in the report. Also include the steps you have taken to try and prevent disturbing your neighbor including restricting the volume, the hours you play and attempting to talk to them to work out a solution. That sets a precedent so that if the situation continues to escalate you are essentially covered if you call the police at a later time.

[JakeFuzz]

I feel your pain. I live in an apartment both above someone and sharing a wall with someone. It was easy to make my roommate happy, I just played when he wasn't home and he never complained (business student = always gone). My downstairs neighbor wasn't so understanding. She said because my amplifier was on the floor above her she could hear every little noise. I too felt like my amp was no louder than a normal television and would play anywhere from 2-6pm only. Despite this she kept calling management and filing noise complaints. I moved my stuff up to the second floor and she never complained again. Now I think the neighbor we share a wall with hates us though... The one thing I really wanted to do though was to sit down with them and ask when was a good block of time and during what days for them to be okay with the noise. I felt it would come off as a little strange though as you were pretty much asking when they wouldn't be home. It's a tough problem man, I was even looking at the really low wattage amps for a while. We can all dream of houses out in the woods where we can turn our amps to 10.  

[raulduke]

I know you're not going to like this suggestion, but have you thought of getting a Pod or something that has a good headphone out?

If they still complain about the noise of your electric guitar unplugged, then you definitely know they have a screw loose  .

I have to admitt though that I do have some sympathy for people if they have just got back from work, and then people like us start kicking out the jams while they are trying to relax and wind down.

Even an amp like a Fender Champ is loud enough to disturb people at full tilt.

I would avoid Police/Councils etc. and only go that route as a last resort; its pretty much certain that your relationship with your neighbours will deteriorate beyond repair if you get the police involved in any way.

[p_wats]

I've had the same issue before in an apartment building: we could be playing acoustically at 5pm and they'd come knocking. In fact, it was so quiet that I could hear them leaving their apt. to come to ours, so I'd stop playing before they even got to me.

In the end, I'm with Madbean in the sense that people like this aren't reasonable in most cases. In my case it turns out my neighbours would still complain to my landlord even after we had fully complied with their wishes, but then he told me they also complained about EVERYTHING (windows condensate after a shower, etc.) and he wanted them gone. They moved out shortly after, thankfully!

We just bought a semi-detached home and definitely want to start on the right foot with our new, permanent neighbours, so I'm looking into sound absorption and amp placement too.

Good luck!

[midwayfair]

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

[whitebread47]

I used to live in a downtown apt. where virtually all tenants were artists or musicians when we moved in, so it was very relaxed and impromptu jams were the norm.  Then a girl moved in nextdoor and beat on the walls with her shoes constantly, shouting obscenities at any hour that she could hear talking.  Unfortunately, her bedroom was adjacent to our living room and we were newly 20 rockers basically.  It didn't help that below her lived a punk band that would crank their amps in spite.

We did talk to the shoe-banger, though.  She was irate at first, but since we were kind she admitted she kept some odd sleeping hours and she was actually herself a professional singer.  I think she felt bad afterward, as she'd stop by to say hi until we moved out.  Sometimes the human element diffuses tense situations, though I don't make a habit of expecting that.

Though from most experiences I'd agree with Madbean that wall-knockers are generally unreasonable, this was an exception.  It is worth it to try discussing this with your neighbors, IMO.  Especially since you have bought that side of the duplex.  It's much easier to be angry with a stranger who happens to live next door than it is someone who has made an effort to communicate respectfully.  It's a roll of the dice every time, unfortunately.

[culturejam]

Sometimes the human element diffuses tense situations, though I don't make a habit of expecting that.

So true.

I think that for the sake of "due diligence", you really must attempt to discuss the situation with the angry neighbor. If it works out, then great. And if not, at least you know you've given it your best shot to be reasonable.


Another thing you might try, midway, is to set up your guitar and amp at the volume you have been playing at, then have your wife bang around on the guitar while you go over to the neighbor's side and get a real notion of what they are hearing. It would require a high level of cooperation from the neighbor, but perhaps they would be impressed that you were trying to see (or rather hear) things from their perspective. Or maybe they are just jerks. 

[midwayfair]

Another thing you might try, midway, is to set up your guitar and amp at the volume you have been playing at, then have your wife bang around on the guitar while you go over to the neighbor's side and get a real notion of what they are hearing. It would require a high level of cooperation from the neighbor, but perhaps they would be impressed that you were trying to see (or rather hear) things from their perspective. Or maybe they are just jerks. 

She wanted to do just that. Well, except that she was going to go over to their house. I'm pretty much the wrong person to talk to anyone, ever.

[irmcdermott]

She wanted to do just that. Well, except that she was going to go over to their house. I'm pretty much the wrong person to talk to anyone, ever.

Haha, it's the same way in my house.... when someone needs a talkin' to, send my wife. She gets the job done.

[LaceSensor]

id just ignore the banging and wait for them to come speak to you in person.
Its the least they can do, and it really sounds like its their problem, not yours.

[timbo_93631]

Before we bought our house we lived in a loft in an arts-specific complex downtown.  The neighbor was constantly leaving notes on our door about TV noise and us talking at regular speaking volume.  I never played my guitar at home at the time as I had a good rehearsal space a few blocks away but eventually I had to bring the amp home, face it at the adjoining wall, crank it all the way up and play as many AC/DC covers as I could remember in order to set a precedent of what "loud" really is.  I should mention that I am good friends with the owner of the complex, so getting kicked out was not an issue.  After about an hour I turned it off and we never got a note or comment again.  This was the, "I might be a jerk, but I am trying to prove a point" method of dealing with the situation.  YMMV