Question about delay types

[angrykoko]

Do the analog type delays, or non PT2399 delays, such as Dirtbag or Aquaboy have that same "sanding a piece of wood" noise that I hear in my one build and you tube demos?

Not sure why but I just zero in on that and have a hard time enjoying the effect.

Thanks!

[culturejam]

Analog delays are kinda noisy. Especially if you're using a V3205 BBD. I don't much care for it either.

[asatbluesboy]

I got myself an MN3205 to replace the V3205 on my BBE Two-Timer. I needed to replace the bias transistors with a trimpot, but the noise got so much better...

[angrykoko]

Thanks.

Hmm, well... not sure what to do.   I was kind of hoping to have something to build (even if it was crazy difficult) that would be the answer to my OCD around this.

I guess I might just try one or two more DIY delays, maybe one will just "click" with me and I'll be happy.
It helps knowing that they are all kind of noisy, so my expectation is set at least.

Commercial delays are just too much $ for what I'm doing and I'ts hard to find any around me to even try that are not Boss pedals (nothing against Boss, I just prefer to be off the beaten path).

Anyway, Thanks again guys.

[culturejam]

What kind of sound are you trying to get?  If analog isn't your bag, and you don't want to use PT2399, there isn't a whole lot else you can do (other than full-on DSP programming).

[angrykoko]

I seem to be drawn to the delay for slower/ darker and more melancholy type playing.

I don't know if analog is my thing or not.  I was asking about them -vs- the PT2399 because I watched jkokura's youtube demo of his Dirtbag and it sounded clean and amazing but, it's hard to tell sometimes on videos; so I was asking before just jumping in on that one.

[gtr2]

The Dirtbag is great!  If you can source mn3005's you'll be eternally happy!

Josh

[culturejam]

I actually think the PT2399 is best when heavily filtered and very dark. It can be tweaked to sound pretty damn close to a real BBD delay (in my opinion).

If you're hell bent on going analog, MN3005s sound best to my ears (by a long shot). But they are very expensive and hard to find. It would be cheaper to buy a used EHX Memory Toy than source just two MN3005s.

Speaking of the Toy, I'm hoping that one of these days madbean will do a 4x BL3208 delay. I think the new 3208s are the best BBDs currently being made (in terms of noise vs delay time). And the small package version makes for a tighter build.

[angrykoko]

Did some searching on the mn3005, I see what you mean about cost.

I think I'll try a Sea Urchin next and maybe I'll get lucky and find someone with a memory man I could give a try.
Or, Maybe the Sea Urchin will just click with me as I've read it's a darker sounding one and.. viola!

I was curious about the BL3208 and stumbled upon this in case your interested:  http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/20-modulationecho/48-ad-3208

[jimijam]

the shecho at ggg uses the holtech delay chip as well as a few that I havent seen in any other projects. I've built it and if you can live with a bb enclosure it might be a good one for you. decent delay times and no grainyness on the repeats. the pt 80 is a 2399delay with a compander and that one has clean repeats as well.

[angrykoko]

Jimjam,
for Schelco most parts are easy enough to find/figure out with the exception of the DRAM, I keep coming up with computer memory sticks.  Do you have a link to what you used?

Ok, back to my obsession with noise (Illness if you like, seeking counseling after this post).
I re-listened to the PT2399 demos and the one that stands out is the Catlinbread Montivillian, I listened to about 5-6 demos and either all the owners of that are really good at playing so it hides the noise or CB really is doing something different to minimize the noise. 

Also, what's the deal around Companders? CB makes a big deal about it not having one.

Thanks for being patient with me.  I'm just being curious about things "delay" oriented that I have no experience with.

[calciferspit]

I seem to be drawn to the delay for slower/ darker and more melancholy type playing.

Cave Dweller? 2399 based but super cheap and easy. It is dark and can be set up to repeat fairly clean. at least mine doesn't do that grainy hiss thing until it is at oscillation.

[culturejam]

I think Smallbear has the DRAM for the 8955.

Ok, back to my obsession with noise (Illness if you like, seeking counseling after this post).
I re-listened to the PT2399 demos and the one that stands out is the Catlinbread Montivillian, I listened to about 5-6 demos and either all the owners of that are really good at playing so it hides the noise or CB really is doing something different to minimize the noise. 

I, too, HATE noise in repeats. It's why I don't much care for most analog delays. I like the darkness of them, but not the "shhhhh" sound from the BBDs. I have been experimenting with ways to make a 2399 very quiet and with long repeats. Check this thread:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=5734.0

Also, what's the deal around Companders? CB makes a big deal about it not having one.

A compander is generally used to first compress the input going into a delay line, and then expand it back to original size after the delay line. The smaller the signal going in to the delay line, the less chance there is for running out of headroom, and it's generally just lower overall noise.

Analog delays are essentially not possible without a compander and fairly heavy filtering.

You don't really *need* one with a 2399, but if you want brighter, less-noisy repeats at longer delay times, it's about the only way to get it done. But if you prefer the darker sounds, you can just filter the bejesus out of the 2399's output and you can get rid of the noise in the repeats.

[TNblueshawk]

If you want to try to find MN3005's I think the way I would go about it is to use Ebay and the whole dispute resolution process. But, you have to have a working build first to test them. If you are willing to take the time, first read the 15 page thread in here called "genuine MN305's". I think it is in the buy/sell lounge...I think. Then use the dispute thing on Ebay if you end up getting fakes. You get your money back and no harm in the end. This is why you need a working build to test them asap when you get them. I didn't and got hosed on a few. But, I have an MN3005 DMM and Aquaboy and at the end of the day I'll keep them forever and "will" the chips to my next of kin so the money I spent is worth it to me.

[jimijam]

Jimjam,
for Schelco most parts are easy enough to find/figure out with the exception of the DRAM, I keep coming up with computer memory sticks.  Do you have a link to what you used?

Ok, back to my obsession with noise (Illness if you like, seeking counseling after this post).
I re-listened to the PT2399 demos and the one that stands out is the Catlinbread Montivillian, I listened to about 5-6 demos and either all the owners of that are really good at playing so it hides the noise or CB really is doing something different to minimize the noise. 

Also, what's the deal around Companders? CB makes a big deal about it not having one.

Thanks for being patient with me.  I'm just being curious about things "delay" oriented that I have no experience with.

smallbear electric sells that one along with the rest for that project