NPD - Lovetone

[LaceSensor]

At the upper end of the rate control I can get a sort of ring modulation sound.



Jim

Nice looking work. Its not a rats nest at all - pretty similar to the Lovetone wiring actually, so pat yourself on the back.

The observation on the rate control is correct and as per the vintage unit.

[electricstorm]

Thanks Ian. At least we now know part of it is like the original unit. I'll keep plugging away at it and post the results for some comparison.

[electricstorm]

Thanks TNblueshawk and Jimilee!

The wiring has been verified and redrawn and the project is moving along. Still in the debugging stages and waiting for a few more parts to come in. The I/P Gain issue of being too weak may be due to the wrong transistor being used. I had ordered BC549C's but received BC549's. After consulting with Govmnt_Lacky and Toneman, it was discovered that the BC549C has an Hfe of 600 while the BC549 has an Hfe of 200. This is most likely the cause of the weak gain. I will order the BC549C's and try that in the flanger then post the results later.

Here are the new wiring diagrams:

Main and Daughter Board wiring



Main Board Jack wiring




Main Board Switch Wiring



Jim

Edit: Updated wiring diagrams to the latest version as of 4/8/2013.

[electricstorm]

To update everyone, here is the latest on the Lovetone Flanger.

I used a 1N4148 for D2 and tested the Gate/Trig jack's function. It works just as described in the users manual.

After trying as many combinations of "Roll Your Own" vactrols as I could (some of my LDR's are still not here), actual vactrols seem to work best for the tremolo effect of the pedal. The VTL5C3 works best for the main board, however, it really sucks on the daughter board. When using the vactrols on the daughter board, it produces a ticking sound when the LFO is set to the triangle wave output and a severe thumping sound when the LFO uses the square wave output. This only seems to happen when the "Time" switch is engaged (allowing you to use the delay or daughter board for flanging/chorus/vibe). I have tried several "roll your own" vactrols with some success, just haven't hit the correct combination yet. I'll let you know when I stumble upon a combination that works here. The square wave output produces thumping with or without the delay engaged and the manual mentions a thumping sound when switching the LFO from triangle to square wave so I assume this is normal. Maybe Lacesensor can comment on this as he has the original flanger.

But for now it looks like VTL5C3's will be used on the main board in my build. A close second is the diffused green LED with an LDR with a resistance of light 10K, Dark 20M for LDR1/LED1 and LDR2/LED2. For LDR3/LED5, this just turns on/off the "Regen" portion of the board when the "Time" switch is engaged. When the "Time" switch is off, the LDR blocks the signal from going through the regen circuit (Action and Reaction controls). Either a VTL5C3 work fine here and the VTL5C2 works ok. A diffused green LED and and LDR works good here also. An LDR with a resistance of light 10K, Dark at least 1M but Dark 10M ~ 20M works better. This will have to be selected for your own personal tastes for the Regen circuit. The dark 1M seemed to allow slight regen bleed-through into the signal when off, but was minimal. I believe the idea was to cut if off entirely.

The BBD's from Smallbear seem to work better than the BBD's from Polida. While the one's from Polida did seem to work ok (provided you get a set that are not dead!!), the range in delay was less than the Smallbear BBD's and all BBD's seemed to have less delay time than my original Panasonic BBD's (MN3207) Doesn't seem to matter which clock IC was used (MN3102, V3201D, BL3102). All clock IC's seemed to work with the other BBD's with no noticeable difference in sound. However, the Cool Audio BBD's did seem to work better than the BBD's from China that Smallbear sells. But overall, both seemed to be acceptable. I did have one BBD that seems to cut in and out (BL3207 from China) but no problem with the Cool Audio BBD's.

For those interested in how the flanger works, here is a block diagram for you to look at.



Explanation from the manual:

(Block diagram is simplified and not necessarily theoretically correct)

Input signal level is adjusted by the I/P Gain control, which also affects the bypass level. The signal is then split into two main paths: (a) straight path which comes out at Space(d) Out/Mono (via Space mod) and (b) delay path which goes via the FX loop (normalized if nothing is connected) into the delay line. The Reaction control (center-zero/off) sets the level of Regen/Feedback which is fed back in before the FX loop. The FX loop is therefore included in the Regen path (c). The delay path then goes via the Time footswitch and out at Time Out at a level which is determined by the Action control (center-zero/off). When the Time footswitch is "off" the delay path is bypassed completely and the output of the I/P Gain section goes straight to Time Out as shown by (d). The LFO can be used to modulate the delay time at an amount set by the Depth control and/or the straight path to create Space mod  (at a fixed amount if selected by the Space footswitch). If nothing is connected to Time Out, it's output will automatically be routed to Space(d) Out/Mono as shown by (e) and summed with Space mod to create a mono output.

According to the manual, you need to understand the above explanation in order to understand how the controls work.

Jim

[LaceSensor]

the thump Vlad/Dan refer to is just a switching mechanical clunk
the square wave shouldnt thump unless you have the depth and manual cranked up

hth

[electricstorm]

Ian, I was going to ask you about that. It does seem to be most intense when the manual and depth are all the way up. The delay seems to disappear when manual OR depth are fully to the left (anticlockwise, counterclockwise). I understand why with the depth but the manual I am confused about. There is no delay except when the rate control is turned up enough to sweep at a medium-slow pace (about 1/3 of the way up) and gives a phasing sound when using the manual and depth controls. Is this the same on the original flanger?

I may have other questions later, but the thumping sound seems to be directly related to the resistance of the LDR and the brightness of the diffuse green LED used. I guess I need to make a diagram showing the settings I used and what they sound like and see if you get the same results with yours.

It would be better if I could post sound samples, but at the moment I have no way to record the sound for an upload. Any suggestions on how to do a sound sample anyone??

[electricstorm]

Wanted to thank Haberdasher for another great etch of the revised Lovetone flanger boards! Got them today and they look sweet with the revisions. I did a dry fit of the components into the two revised areas and they fit perfectly (the diodes and resistors I knew would have to be placed standing up). Great work man!!

I am working out one more bug and will post results later on the original build. Build docs are coming along slowly....

Jim

[alanp]

What does the ?Flanger sound like, compared to the 'fluid' Collosalus and the 'clangy' Electric Mistress? (YMMV on the toan for these, of course.)

[electricstorm]

Alan,

Lacesensor has one and can probably answer your question better than me, but I'll take a stab at it. It isn't as "lush" as the Electric Mistress (I think the EM uses MN3007 where the ? Flang uses MN3207). It doesn't seem to have the "jet" type swooooosshing sound of the EM. I haven't heard the Collosalus so I can't comment on the comparison there. I can say from the clone that I'm working on that it can do some chorusing, flanging, phasing (sort of), tremolo/vibrato (vibrato kind of), and a faux/psuedo type of ring modulation. It can also self-oscillate and give some science fiction types of FX, which may not be the best for making music unless you have a synth.

Maybe Lacesensor can chime in and correct me where I may be wrong. I tried to buy one on fleabay last night so I could compare the clone to it. I gave up at $1,400.00. It eventually sold for $2,750.00!! ten minutes later another one went up on fleabay for a "Buy It Now" price of $2,700.00, there was no "Bid" button. Too rich for my blood!!!

Jim

[LaceSensor]

I'll just say you don't buy a lovetone flanger for standard flanger sounds.
It's a whole lot more and actually doesn't excel at the full on jet plane sound.

I haven't built the collosalus yet
For me the best flanger is the Ada and I strongly recommend building the mn3007 version from moosapotamus.

[electricstorm]

The Lovetone ? Flanger is finally finished. I am working on the build docs and I need to correct the schematic and one wiring diagram (it was verified, but I made an error when I posted it).

So, hopefully soon, those that are interested can build their own clone of the Lovetone Flanger. I have a Wobulator in for repair that I hope to clone next.

[jimilee]

The Lovetone ? Flanger is finally finished. I am working on the build docs and I need to correct the schematic and one wiring diagram (it was verified, but I made an error when I posted it).

So, hopefully soon, those that are interested can build their own clone of the Lovetone Flanger. I have a Wobulator in for repair that I hope to clone next.

Yes Yes Yes, I can Haz Lovetone?

[alanp]

That's going on the 'to do' list. (It keeps getting longer... lucky for me it is sometimes more of a stack than a list.)

[jimilee]

That's going on the 'to do' list. (It keeps getting longer... lucky for me it is sometimes more of a stack than a list.)

Yep got stacks myself. So cool,stacks of pcb's turn into piles of pedals.i love it.

[electricstorm]

Here is a look at the revised board that now allows you to add the parts to the PCB instead of soldering them to other components like the factory did with whatever mod that was done.



This is how it looked before the board was revised (the R24 mod can't be seen in this photo).


Jim