Envirotex Question

[pickdropper]

I've got a question for you Envirotex users.  Do you usually drill the holes before pouring or afterwards?

I think it could work either way, but I am curious about everybody else's experiences.

[TNblueshawk]

Before. Give you a recent example why. I had decaled and tex'd one and decided I wanted a tempo LED. I thought no big deal, I'll drill me a hole. Drilled a pilot...all is good. Next bit up drilled find but it loosend the epoxy in a perfect circle around the hole I drilled. Looked like a bubble but it pulled the epoxy up. Next drill bit size up...disaster. The "bubble" if you will now encompassed a one inch round circle. F@#$%@#. Stripped the enclosure down to metal and started over.

The only way around this as I see it is if you drilled within 48 hours after the pour, ie it is not cured. Mine had been cured for 2 months more or less. But, the issue with that is if you handle the epoxy too soon you will leave your finger prints on it....ask me how I know that one 

I used to drill out the excess epoxy around the holes when something wouldn't fit. Now I don't for fear of this. I used a very small exacto knife and scrape around it real careful.

I'm a walking "I can tell you what not to do with Envirotex" 

[pickdropper]

There is also option C: drill holes, but not in the artwork label on top.  I am not sure how well that would work, though.

[TheCobbenator]

Did my first batch of pedals with envirotex last week. All turned out really nice. I had predrilled them, then after they set up, went back and very carefully either scraped out excess with a razor or mostly I just re-drilled them very delicately. No biggy.

Good luck!

[pickdropper]

Cool.  Good info all around.  Thanks guys.

I am actually going to be trying this with some other epoxy that I have on hand, which is much lower viscosity than Envirotex (about 500 cps), so I may have to take a couple of passes at it.

[juansolo]

This is the pain in the arse when it comes to Envirotex.

Drill the holes before and you risk flow marks (which can look really odd).
Drill the holes after and they're really prone to lifting and swarf getting underneath.

We use the third method. It's still a pain and there's still risk of lifting, you've just got to be really careful/patient.

- Make a paper template, mark and drill holes in the enclosure.
- affix decal, do not drill holes.
- Apply Envirotex
- When cured, score the inside of the hole (the decal) with a craft knife. Press the enclosure down hard on a flat surface with a cloth over when doing this so you don't lift it. Don't press too hard with the knife. If you can, remove the decal, if not it should pop off.
- Drill the envirotex with a cone cutter, very, very, carefully. Applying as little pressure as possible. A drill bit will try and lift the Envirotex, the cone cutter we have doesn't do that and goes up in 1mm increments so is quite gentle.

Still it's going to lift at some points. Though you can usually push these back down with a bit of pressure as long as nothing gets underneath.

This is the best method we've come up with so far. It takes ages... But it's better than painting and a hell of a lot tougher when done.

Valve holes are our biggest problem as our gentle cone cutter doesn't go that big. The other one we have does, but all it does is bludgeon. What we've come up with for that is cutting the decal before hand and then plugging the hole with a bit of candle. When it's all dry break up the candle and gently finish the edges with the knife and sanding. Again avoids the flow marks of just having a hole.

[pickdropper]

This is the pain in the arse when it comes to Envirotex.

Drill the holes before and you risk flow marks (which can look really odd).
Drill the holes after and they're really prone to lifting and swarf getting underneath.

We use the third method. It's still a pain and there's still risk of lifting, you've just got to be really careful/patient.

- Make a paper template, mark and drill holes in the enclosure.
- affix decal, do not drill holes.
- Apply Envirotex
- When cured, score the inside of the hole (the decal) with a craft knife. Press the enclosure down hard on a flat surface with a cloth over when doing this so you don't lift it. Don't press too hard with the knife. If you can, remove the decal, if not it should pop off.
- Drill the envirotex with a cone cutter, very, very, carefully. Applying as little pressure as possible. A drill bit will try and lift the Envirotex, the cone cutter we have doesn't do that and goes up in 1mm increments so is quite gentle.

Still it's going to lift at some points. Though you can usually push these back down with a bit of pressure as long as nothing gets underneath.

This is the best method we've come up with so far. It takes ages... But it's better than painting and a hell of a lot tougher when done.

Valve holes are our biggest problem as our gentle cone cutter doesn't go that big. The other one we have does, but all it does is bludgeon. What we've come up with for that is cutting the decal before hand and then plugging the hole with a bit of candle. When it's all dry break up the candle and gently finish the edges with the knife and sanding. Again avoids the flow marks of just having a hole.

Thanks JS, that makes a lot of sense, and actually addresses a number of my concerns with sinking of the epoxy when curing if there are holes.  I think I am going to give this a shot.

[TNblueshawk]

First, I need to re-read my threads. I had some horrible typo's on my first post  Anyway, I know this may sound odd, but I like the pillowing on top around the holes. I think it's cool. Having said that yeah, if you don't like it then there is a problem. The jack holes on the sides I've come to cutting out little round pieces of painter's tape, blue stuff, about 1mm or so bigger than the hole and stick it on there. This helps avoid the flow marks that develop below those holes. Of course I tape the entire inside of the enclosure in this blue tape to reduce the lip that develops on the bottom of the enclosure and this little circle of tape adheres to that for the jack holes. Takes about 5 minutes or so to cut out 3 circles to size.

Juan's method takes care of another "problem" although once done I never had an issue with doing it. Drips develop on the inside of the enclosure if you drill first the way I do it. I flip it over and use a painter's chisel and just pop those loose. Takes 3 minutes or so. Need to be care to hold down on that enclosure and put a soft cloth under it.

Hey Juan, got a question for you: On the sides, do you guys have a "wave" problem? Do you know what I mean? The pour is perfect but as it dries it creates a ripple which I guess is due to the epoxy draining but not draining exactly at the same speed at all points.  I don't really care for my own builds, but for others I like to get as perfect as I can.

[juansolo]

Hey Juan, got a question for you: On the sides, do you guys have a "wave" problem? Do you know what I mean? The pour is perfect but as it dries it creates a ripple which I guess is due to the epoxy draining but not draining exactly at the same speed at all points.  I don't really care for my own builds, but for others I like to get as perfect as I can.

We don't do the sides We make the decals smaller than the top and then just cover the top to just past the edge of the decal, wiping any dribbles. Cleggy has become a ninja at this. Our coloured boxes are now bought powder coated anyhow so it's only the top that needs the protection.

[TNblueshawk]

Hey Juan, got a question for you: On the sides, do you guys have a "wave" problem? Do you know what I mean? The pour is perfect but as it dries it creates a ripple which I guess is due to the epoxy draining but not draining exactly at the same speed at all points.  I don't really care for my own builds, but for others I like to get as perfect as I can.

We don't do the sides We make the decals smaller than the top and then just cover the top to just past the edge of the decal, wiping any dribbles. Cleggy has become a ninja at this. Our coloured boxes are now bought powder coated anyhow so it's only the top that needs the protection.

Holy smokes you cheater !! 

I didn't realize that in your pics. Nice!

[alanp]

Like Scrooge McDuck always says -- work smarter, not harder!

[pickdropper]

Hey Juan, got a question for you: On the sides, do you guys have a "wave" problem? Do you know what I mean? The pour is perfect but as it dries it creates a ripple which I guess is due to the epoxy draining but not draining exactly at the same speed at all points.  I don't really care for my own builds, but for others I like to get as perfect as I can.

We don't do the sides We make the decals smaller than the top and then just cover the top to just past the edge of the decal, wiping any dribbles. Cleggy has become a ninja at this. Our coloured boxes are now bought powder coated anyhow so it's only the top that needs the protection.

Surface tension for the win!  I don't think that will work with the epoxy I am going to try, so I will likely do the sides.

[exit2studios]

Has anyone every drilled the led hole, plugged it and poured the etex...then place the led "under" the envirotex without drilling?  Seems like that might be pretty cool.

[TNblueshawk]

I have not but then I like my LED's as bright as the sun and this would eat into that. I suppose you could put a piece of tape under it and then pull that tape off.

[juansolo]

I've got a question for you Envirotex users.  Do you usually drill the holes before pouring or afterwards?

I think it could work either way, but I am curious about everybody else's experiences.

Ah there's been a whole thread on this and revelations over of Rej's board. Things I wish I'd known a year ago as I've been making my life difficult for no reason. As it is, I've updated my envirotex tutorial on my site.

The long and the short is:

Drill enclosure
Apply decal
Cut holes in decal with a craft knife
Seal holes with tape from the inside of the enclosure
Do the envirotex bit
When cured remove tape and drill through with a cone cutter (drill bits will try and lift it)

This way you never have to apply pressure to the underside and the risk of lifting is greatly reduced. What was an all day job for a batch of 6 enclosures now takes about an hour and a half.