El Cap - Packed back up in 40 mins

[jubal81]

After 40 minutes with the El Capistan it's already all packed up and ready to go back. To me, it didn't sound nearly as 'analog' in person as it did in clips. Maybe it doesn't go well with with my gear ...

Pretty disappointed. I'd been looking forward to getting my hands on one of these for a while. I read some people don't like the buffer, and I could see why. I felt like my tone was taken over by Invasion of the Digital Body Snatchers. There wasn't any liveliness left at all. The 'tails' feature made me mad because I couldn't make the sound go away fast enough.

I didn't like the reverb at all, either. I've been through 4 or 5 digital reverbs and this was about as bad as any I've ever tried.

A really harsh review, I know. Part of it may be the disappointment of a 'pull back the curtain' moment. To its credit, it is loaded with features and the modulation on the repeats is very decent. I think with a digital/solid-state rig it might be a keeper.

[culturejam]

I really like mine. 

[jubal81]

Awesome. Thousands do. They can hardly make them fast enough.
What kind of setup do you use?
I get the sense it's the best at what it does, but it's just a puzzle piece that doesn't belong in my box.

[claytushaywood]

I had a strymon timeline for about 2 weeks before I sold it.  After hearing strymon's demo's I thought I would never need another delay pedal again... fucking amazing sounds come out of that thing in their demos.  I could not get them out though. 

I did a little research and found the secrets to strymons demo's.  This probably does not apply quite as much to the el capistan but it is a HUGE point on the timeline.  They record their demos using the old damage control tube preamp pedals... Like the womanizer and demonizer, liquid blues, all those huge boys.  Apparently they make great DI preamp pedals.  They run guitar into one of those then into the timeline then direct into an apogee or something. 

Using this setup allows the guitar to be properly preamped and eqd first by the eq but then the timeline gets full frequency amplification.  allowing all of the nuances and high end of the pitch shifted delays (crystal delay) and the lo fi ring mod stuff, filters, and all the other awesome features of the timeline to come in full frequency, instead of being cut out by a guitar speaker cab. 

Makes total sense after using the pedal and wondering why I couldnt dial in the right sounds (they even use factory presets on their demos).  That kind of setup would be amazing for us effects junkies.  Run overdrives, fuzz, boosts, all before the preamp pedal or rack preamp that takes all the shrill high end out of the guitar signal.  then put pitch shifters, filters, octaves, and whatnots in between a tube guitar preamp and a full range solid state power amp with full range speakers.  I guess it would mainly really greatly improve the crystal delays (repeats continually pitch shifted up or down- so they get way higher than a guitar speakers frequency range)  Those strymon demos really make those old damage control preamps sound good... they used to be pretty inexpensive for a full voltage, fully eq'd tube preamp at least.  i still lust after those timeline demos- such phenomenal sounds on those things

[juansolo]

I didn't like the reverb at all, either. I've been through 4 or 5 digital reverbs and this was about as bad as any I've ever tried.

Wet Reverb. The best reverb to my ears that I've ever heard and one of the few bought pedals that I own.

[jkokura]

I have an el cap and a timeline. I use fender tube amps. Both sound as awesome as the demos to my ears.

What's funny about that wet reverb is that it's essentially the Belton reverb Brick.

Jacob

[juansolo]

What's funny about that wet reverb is that it's essentially the Belton reverb Brick.

Really ain't, had it apart. Looks DSP to me...

I've got a brick based reverb also. Sounds nothing like.

[jkokura]

The guy who builds it is the same guy as designed the brick. I read a post of his saying he uses the same algorithms to drive his reverb. Yes it's digital, but its all the same idea.

Jacob

[juansolo]

The guy who builds it is the same guy as designed the brick. I read a post of his saying he uses the same algorithms to drive his reverb. Yes it's digital, but its all the same idea.

Fair enough, but I think to say it's brick-based is selling it a little short. Tis a wonderful little pedal.

[jkokura]

Cool. That makes me want to give it a chance. As soon as I read that it was similar to the brick I dismissed it. Perhaps Nuenbaer improved it somehow.

Jacob

[jubal81]

Staying on the reverb topic, I've been studying solid state and tube driver/recover/mix circuits and I think I've got at least an idea of how I'd like to set it up (external spring tank like Stage Center).

The last bugger in my way is setting up a solid and easy +-15 volt dual supply that will fit in a smallish enclosure. It takes a wide voltage swing to push them the way they need to be pushed.

... With a SMPS submini tube reverb pedal on deck. I've found a few versions that don't use transformers to drive the tank.

Also, it'd be pretty easy to toggle between the short, long and medium tanks.

I'm still in the research phase, but the breadboard isn't far down the road.

[jkokura]

make me a recording of that?  maybe the analog and regular delay types sound good, no better than a tc digital and not better than a real analog delay though. but there is no way that the ice and filter modes sound as good as they do when running through full range speakers. 

of course 'awesome to you' is a different matter

I may do that, but you can check out my youtube page for some examples.

But with all due respect, I do disagree with you about some things. I think the question isn't whether one is 'better' than a 'TC Digital' or a 'real analog delay.' Better is a subjective term. You say it's better, I say it's worse, we get nowhere. What you've said above is all opinion, yet you state it like fact. That's cool, you can have that opinion, that's fine with me and I respect you for going against the grain on this one. If it's what you feel, stick to your guns.

For what it's worth, I've used a ridiculously large number of delays over the years. From rack to pedal, from Line 6 to Boss to TC to EHX to Strymon, I've used a very large percentage of the popular models over the years. Most of those that I've liked and owned I've also used while playing live, so I have a fairly good idea on what they can and can't do, and how they sound in a mix. I'm not a newb when it comes to delay, nor am I taken by hype and popularity or fad the way some are. I appreciate good feature sets and authentic sound when it comes to my tools, and I have a variety of experiences and my opinions are based on them. Likewise, it seems like you do too.

I have put my El Cap through paces for more than a year and now, and I'm putting the Timeline through it's paces now. I feel as though the sound and features of both these pedals is at least equal to all the other options available in the same range, and in many cases both products have proven superior for me. These are my feelings and opinions based on my experiences. Full range speakers and youtube demos don't enter into the equation for me.

By paces, this includes direct comparisons between the Strymon pedals and others that I own, live playing use, and of course my own thoughts on their sounds and feature sets, usability and so on. I generally take quite some time to make my decision, mostly because I have to learn how to use these devices. Do I have gripes or are things perfect? Sure I do, and no they aren't - but for now I'm working with what I've got to produce really, really great sounds that I haven't been able to thus far with other tools.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with a Strymon product. Fortunately they have a great return policy, so you're not really out anything.

Jacob

[jubal81]

Thanks for weighing in, Jacob. A big factor in my decision to buy one was the words you and Brian had for Strymon stuff.

I can tell it's a very high quality unit and the options, quality and implementation of modulation, tape crinkle, etc. are pretty impressive.

It just didn't fit in with the sound I want. I'm only out a little shipping and now I have some extra moolah for more parts Oh, and some more rationalization for driving myself crazy building analog circuits instead of buying a POD and being done with it.   

[jkokura]

It just didn't fit in with the sound I want.

That's a great reason to send one back. If it's not the sound you want, that's totally cool. Tape type delay is not for everyone.

Jacob

[nzCdog]

Fair enough... I listened to the demos and every one raving about the El Cap but... I dno't really like the sound either   I'd rather get the brigadier