DirtBag mods for v3205 - Final Solution

[Scruffie]

Brian did build several prototypes of this and other boards, but he has admitted that perhaps the proofing was a little rushed. His builds went together well and quickly, so there was no expected problems to be had.

I don't understand.

If the testing builds were made on the production boards with v3205s and the original bill of materials and experienced none of these distortion issues, then why are we being told to make these changes?

I might have to look into buying some more desoldering apparatus if I run into difficulty getting these components out, and I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Mike, are you the same MadebyMike as ShortscaleMike in the U.K.?

If so if you want, if you post me your board i'l do the mods for you, i've got a good desoldering pump (which you can pick up from Bitsbox.co.uk pretty cheap) and have quite a bit of experience fighting with boards.

The problems here just came from bad luck, BBDs are ficcle beasts as is tone, it's perfectly reasonable that Bean didn't hear the issues others hear, in fact, on Freestompboxes, Dirk Hendrik said that all he did on his board was change one component to a jumper and his was fine, plus he did none of these mods on his Deluxe Memory Baby either, all in the ears of the particular person and what they find acceptable.

And testing probably was a bit rushed yeah, but us (the collective DIY) are probably to blame for that for being an impatient bunch  

Edit: Just read Beans post, testing was most definitley NOT rushed, i'm amazed!
Don't ever stop what you're doing Brian  this work is greatly appreciated.

[jkokura]

Certainly I have laughed a lot at the incessant begging of projects to be released a few times!

We all have a pile of circuits on our desks that are either not working and need to be fixed, or are not working and will probably never see the light of day! This is one that you CAN get working though.

Jacob

[LaceSensor]

Anyone in Manchester handy with a desoldering method? 
Ive kinda given up and just accepted mine as it is.

In the future I might build another one if the boards get restocked.

[MadeByMike]

Certainly I have laughed a lot at the incessant begging of projects to be released a few times!
Jacob

I guess I wasn't a part of that pressure, I just heard about the project from someone ordering a PCB and posting about it on HCFX, and ordered it from the madbean website along with the CurrentLover, which also excites and impresses me as a project. I've ordered from Brian a few times before this and been nothing but impressed, plus I've used his schematics as reference for veroboard layouts also - this has all contributed to the fact I was under the impression this was a solid 100% tested and verifed BOM and would all go together smoothly.

Thanks for your detailed reply Brian, I really do appreciate it - as I do the offer of a replacement board. I may take you up on that and build the newly recommended BOM from the start on that, but I think I owe it to you to attempt to make the changes you've recommended to my current board first. If and only if I fail to get a working solution would I consider it fair to ask for a replacement board.

I understand this is complex and a demanding build, but I'm not sure that I accept someone willing to take it on should also be expected to desolder components that were not misplaced - I'm sure noone enjoys doing this on an expensive 2-sided board. They're lovely to solder into - desoldering and clearing pads not so much.

I guess most of the frustration and confusion is coming from the fact that there's people like Dirk who built his and with one component jumpering is fine, and then a bunch of guys here who had unworkable distortion and had to make a bunch of mods to get things in line - and still at this point we're being told that either we could be 100% satisifed by

1) the original BOM
2) the original BOM with the 100k x2 switch
3) the original BOM with the changes mentioned in this thread applied.

You have to admit that is a lot of different options and as someone who's wanting to limit the amount of tricky unsoldering it is a bit overwhelming.

I'm particularly not looking forwards to changing R10 and R42 in particular.

I'll do my best and let you know if I end up experiencing unrecoverable trouble.

Thanks
Mike

[MadeByMike]

Brian did build several prototypes of this and other boards, but he has admitted that perhaps the proofing was a little rushed. His builds went together well and quickly, so there was no expected problems to be had.

I don't understand.

If the testing builds were made on the production boards with v3205s and the original bill of materials and experienced none of these distortion issues, then why are we being told to make these changes?

I might have to look into buying some more desoldering apparatus if I run into difficulty getting these components out, and I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Mike, are you the same MadebyMike as ShortscaleMike in the U.K.?

If so if you want, if you post me your board i'l do the mods for you, i've got a good desoldering pump (which you can pick up from Bitsbox.co.uk pretty cheap) and have quite a bit of experience fighting with boards.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll do my best to sort it myself. When I realised I would have to start desoldering things I went hunting for a pump on bitsbox (I love those guys) but foudn it's sold out unfortunately, or I would have got one:

http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/tools.html

I don't want anyone to think I am overly criticising Brian here (and your comment about him carrying on doing what he does, of course that is the last thing on my mind - he is doing a great service to many effects lovers and that is to be applauded completely).

I remain a big fan of madbean pedals.

[madbean]

Mike, I hear you. And, I'll keep your feedback in mind going forward. Of course, I will always strive to make MBP the best it can be and have satisfied customers...that is the most important thing to me.

[Scruffie]

Certainly I have laughed a lot at the incessant begging of projects to be released a few times!

Haha, I think i'm at least a tad guilty of doing it my self, although I can still laugh at it on occasion...

Anyone in Manchester handy with a desoldering method?  
Ive kinda given up and just accepted mine as it is.

In the future I might build another one if the boards get restocked.

Are you using a Pump? It really should be as simple as desoldering the bottom of the pad and then desoldering from the top of the pad, if you want you can post me yours, i'm not in Manchester though.

Certainly I have laughed a lot at the incessant begging of projects to be released a few times!
Jacob

I guess I wasn't a part of that pressure, I just heard about the project from someone ordering a PCB and posting about it on HCFX, and ordered it from the madbean website along with the CurrentLover, which also excites and impresses me as a project. I've ordered from Brian a few times before this and been nothing but impressed, plus I've used his schematics as reference for veroboard layouts also - this has all contributed to the fact I was under the impression this was a solid 100% tested and verifed BOM and would all go together smoothly.

Thanks for your detailed reply Brian, I really do appreciate it - as I do the offer of a replacement board. I may take you up on that and build the newly recommended BOM from the start on that, but I think I owe it to you to attempt to make the changes you've recommended to my current board first. If and only if I fail to get a working solution would I consider it fair to ask for a replacement board.

I understand this is complex and a demanding build, but I'm not sure that I accept someone willing to take it on should also be expected to desolder components that were not misplaced - I'm sure noone enjoys doing this on an expensive 2-sided board. They're lovely to solder into - desoldering and clearing pads not so much.

I guess most of the frustration and confusion is coming from the fact that there's people like Dirk who built his and with one component jumpering is fine, and then a bunch of guys here who had unworkable distortion and had to make a bunch of mods to get things in line - and still at this point we're being told that either we could be 100% satisifed by

1) the original BOM
2) the original BOM with the 100k x2 switch
3) the original BOM with the changes mentioned in this thread applied.

You have to admit that is a lot of different options and as someone who's wanting to limit the amount of tricky unsoldering it is a bit overwhelming.

I'm particularly not looking forwards to changing R10 and R42 in particular.

I'll do my best and let you know if I end up experiencing unrecoverable trouble.

Thanks
Mike

To be honest, we should be glad that someone has even attempted a project like this that allows people to build an effect with in production BBDs rather than a select few being able to.

There's a warning in the Project files saying this wouldn't necessarily be easy and that it could lead to the loss of time and money, something that should definitley be taken to heart.

These types of projects are always going to be a risk for someone providing them and I can't thank Brian enough for stepping out of the comfort zone to bring them, the current output has had some really exciting stuff in it and i'll happily accept a few issues along the way if it means we keep getting this type of project, i'd hate for him to be put off by a few kinks in the road and to just stick to standard effects.

As with any build though, it really should be breadboarded first, yes it's huge, but that's all the more reason to, this is not a simple build, it has a lot of chance to not be right the first time for everyone.

Hell, a lot of people complained about the EHX versions of the 3208 memory man! And they're an entire company, not just one man.

[Scruffie]

Brian did build several prototypes of this and other boards, but he has admitted that perhaps the proofing was a little rushed. His builds went together well and quickly, so there was no expected problems to be had.

I don't understand.

If the testing builds were made on the production boards with v3205s and the original bill of materials and experienced none of these distortion issues, then why are we being told to make these changes?

I might have to look into buying some more desoldering apparatus if I run into difficulty getting these components out, and I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Mike, are you the same MadebyMike as ShortscaleMike in the U.K.?

If so if you want, if you post me your board i'l do the mods for you, i've got a good desoldering pump (which you can pick up from Bitsbox.co.uk pretty cheap) and have quite a bit of experience fighting with boards.

Thanks for the offer, but I'll do my best to sort it myself. When I realised I would have to start desoldering things I went hunting for a pump on bitsbox (I love those guys) but foudn it's sold out unfortunately, or I would have got one:

http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/tools.html

I don't want anyone to think I am overly criticising Brian here (and your comment about him carrying on doing what he does, of course that is the last thing on my mind - he is doing a great service to many effects lovers and that is to be applauded completely).

I remain a big fan of madbean pedals.

Yeah bitsbox are a handy source in the U.K. i've been a customer since I started doing DIY and still get all my Enclosures from them.

My comments about Brian carrying on aren't aimed at you, they're more just to thank Brian for his work and to not let issues like this make him think twice in the future about complicated effects because of the risks with them, I definitley understand that you're dissapointed but I also understand it's easy to get in to a build like this and not get what you wanted first try.

[madbean]

FYI: I would rather make things comfortable enough for someone to feel they can express disappointment as long as it's honest because I see that as an opportunity to improve MBP. So, I don't take things personally and certainly everything Mike and a couple others have expressed is "in bounds". Now worries there. I do truly appreciate thanks and praise, too, but I'm humble enough to want to continue to earn that.

[mjcyates]

I do truly appreciate thanks and praise, too, but I'm humble enough to want to continue to earn that.

You are earning it in my book. Thanks!

[MadeByMike]

Good news, folks!

[Comfort Player]

Well said Brian, and Thank you for your hard work and outstanding effects.

[RonaldB]

Did the mods, took a while but the delays are beautifull right now.
Thanks. Madbean and Scruffie

ROnaldB

[Seiche]

has anyone (especially those that experience difficulties) ever attempted to do a comparison to a real DMM?

madbean, have you talked to Dirk_Hendrik about the change he made (only a jumper?).

maybe it would help to send a few audiofiles back and forth to compare whether something "is normal that way, the original does it too" or "wow shit, that's actually really bad".

I mean if Dirk does it with a jumper and is satisfied and LaceSensor isn't even with the new mods there is certainly either a discrepancy in expectations (no offense) or something with the biasing didn't go right on LaceSensor's build. Hell, maybe there's even an accidentially wrong component somewhere on your build Lace, though I fully assume you have checked all the resistor bands and cap values before posting a complaint.

To be honest, I'm a little anxious now, but will probably stick with building it with v3205, as buying MN3005s is still much more expensive than redoing the v3205 if i run into difficulties. RonaldB gives me much hope 

[LaceSensor]

I'm very sure I didn't make a mistake. I listed my changes, which were few and minor.
As I said I'm 95% happy and I will do the mods at some point when I can feel confident in not ruining it completely.