Laser engraver or CNC for powder coated enclosure?

[Kroars]

I'd like to start engraving controls and graphics onto powder coated aluminum enclosures and I'm not sure what the best route would be to suit my needs.  I build a lot of pedals and have been using a brother ptouch for labels, but would like to graduate to engraving.  I'd prefer to spend no more than $1k (preferably close to $500) on a machine, but I'm not sure what would be the best option.  Should I go CNC machine or laser engraver? Are there any models in particular that are better for this use?

I just want a clean finish that looks great and I'm hoping to achieve that within my budget.  Maybe I can't, but I figured I'd ask.

Hope everyone is doing well.

[imjonwain]

my opinion
Cheap laser etcher > cheap CNC

I've used both.  I used to have access to a CNC and a ULS laser cutter/engraver at my work and I currently use an ebay/made in China laser (it still costs over $1k) engraver at my local maker space. 

While using a CNC to engrave is nice you are going to have higher tooling costs (it's very easy to break small end mills) and fixture costs (you're cutting metal so you need to keep your parts aligned and clamped down well) .  It's also gonna take a little bit more time to get working the way you want and accidentally damaging the machine is easier.

If you want to engrave the metal itself with a laser you're going to need a 100W+ C02 laser which is fairly large and requires cooling/venting.  I'm still not sure if that will do it or just burn the surface.  If you are fine burning off paint/powder coating with a laser you can probably get away with a much cheaper and lower maintenance diode laser but I haven't tried or known anyone who has tried those ~$500 options out.  They claim to burn designs into plywood in the ads so I would think etching through paint/power coating is doable.  I've done this with a 60W C02 laser with the power turned pretty low so as not to burn the paint in the surrounding areas. 

 

[Gearomatic]

Directly marking aluminum will need a fiber laser if I'm not mistaken.

You can etch aluminum with a C02 laser and something like Cermark Marking spray, where the laser triggers a chemical reaction with the material to leave a mark (Here is an example that I did with Cermark and a 40W C02 laser)

Some people report that dry Molybdenum lube spray can also work to mark aluminum with a C02 laser, but it doesn't look as dark. that being said its like $8 for a spray can of that vs $50 for a can of Cermark

I'm Fortunate enough to have access to a few really nice ones at work, so I'm not super in the know about what models are worth there salt, but I hear OmTech Laser has a 40W and 50W Entry level C02 Lasers that are priced well. Would need to do your research on that of course.

[pickdropper]

Directly marking aluminum will need a fiber laser if I'm not mistaken.

You can etch aluminum with a C02 laser and something like Cermark Marking spray, where the laser triggers a chemical reaction with the material to leave a mark (Here is an example that I did with Cermark and a 40W C02 laser)

Some people report that dry Molybdenum lube spray can also work to mark aluminum with a C02 laser, but it doesn't look as dark. that being said its like $8 for a spray can of that vs $50 for a can of Cermark

I'm Fortunate enough to have access to a few really nice ones at work, so I'm not super in the know about what models are worth there salt, but I hear OmTech Laser has a 40W and 50W Entry level C02 Lasers that are priced well. Would need to do your research on that of course.

Yeah, you need Fiber or YAG to dig directly into metal as C02 is the wrong wavelength.

I like and use Enduramark for laser marking with a C02, but it is indeed pricey at $55 a can.  You need a bit of power to do it.  I've done it with 30W lasers, but it was at max power and very low speed settings.

I haven't been terribly impressed with the lower cost lasers, but it depends how picky you are.  The cheaper ones will mark/discolor powder coat, but may not completely remove it.  Registration can be an issue on the cheaper ones as well, but again, it all depends on how particular you are.

[culturejam]

I haven't been terribly impressed with the lower cost lasers, but it depends how picky you are.  The cheaper ones will mark/discolor powder coat, but may not completely remove it.  Registration can be an issue on the cheaper ones as well, but again, it all depends on how particular you are.

I have extensive experience with el-cheapo lasers, and I totally agree. Well, I agree that they can't cut all the way down to metal and its hard to get good alignment. I've had "good enough for rock n roll" results that I think a lot of DIY folks would be pleased with. It's a slow process that needs help with ventilation and air assist to get best results, and it helps if you get a laser that has open firmware so you can use good software (LightBurn). Here's an example or two: https://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=32273

[Kroars]

Thank you kindly for your responses.  The main goal would be to precisely burn away the powder coating on the enclosure so as to add the name of controls to each knob/switch etc. (most important) and a plus would be able to add art/graphics to the enclosure via burning the powder coat away with the laser.  Sounds like CNC would be more costly for maintenance and such and perhaps require a bit more work to secure everything in place for a proper engraving. 

The end result would have look "professional" and I'm just not sure which models and price range I should look for.  Here's a link to a quick video showing what I'm after.  I'm assuming (especially by the speed in which the task is completed) that this was probably an expensive commercial engraver.  Would I be able to achieve the same end result with maybe more time with a laser engraver in the $500-$1000 range? 

https://youtube.com/shorts/CSvjiYmIBco?feature=share

Thanks again for your help, I really do appreciate it!

[gordo]

A lot of your results is the powdercoat you're dealing with as well.  A thicker coat gives you less precise results.  I've had decent results on my NEJE laser with the Tayda matte finish powdercoat.

Paint is a bit hit or miss but in theory would be easier to control the thickness.

[Zerro]

Bloody sh*t! It cuts!

[culturejam]

Fiber is hot shit and can etch a pedal in seconds (as the video demonstrates). But they are not cheap by hobbyist standards. Ebay has some small ones for ~$2300. Such as this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/401887601619?hash=item5d925e23d3:g:lb4AAOSw98JgDozs

[pickdropper]

A lot of your results is the powdercoat you're dealing with as well.  A thicker coat gives you less precise results.  I've had decent results on my NEJE laser with the Tayda matte finish powdercoat.

Paint is a bit hit or miss but in theory would be easier to control the thickness.

I'm not convinced Tayda actually uses powder coat on most of their enclosures.  It laser etches super weird.  It's almost like burning acrylic paint off.

[culturejam]

I'm not convinced Tayda actually uses powder coat on most of their enclosures.  It laser etches super weird.  It's almost like burning acrylic paint off.

It stinks! So does the powdercoat from Love My Switches. Those might not be powdercoat either, but they etch decent with the el-cheapo Chinese hobby LED-based lasers. YMMV with big-boy CO2 lasers.

[madbean]

I'm thinking a fiber laser might be a very good investment for mbp.

[Kroars]

Madbeans- I'm starting to think you may be correct.  Sounds like I need to change my $500-$1000 budget to a more realistic $2000-$3000 budget.  Any particular fiber lasers in mind? I'd only be using it to etch/engrave aluminum enclosures either powder coat, paint or bare aluminum.

Thanks!

[madbean]

Madbeans- I'm starting to think you may be correct.  Sounds like I need to change my $500-$1000 budget to a more realistic $2000-$3000 budget.  Any particular fiber lasers in mind? I'd only be using it to etch/engrave aluminum enclosures either powder coat, paint or bare aluminum.

Thanks!

I'm not really able to give advice since I have no experience with one. I've been checking out some youTube on 30W Fiber lasers and its been informative. Omtech seems like a possible choice (for USA, at least).
https://omtechlaser.com/collections/fiber-laser-markers

I guess I need to learn a bit more. I'm curious if a 20W one would be enough for what I would need. I've even seen some videos on lasering single sided PCBs. That would actually be pretty awesome.

...of course, what I really want is a UV Printer but I don't have $30k

[jimilee]

...of course, what I really want is a UV Printer but I don't have $30k
[/quote]
The end of the fiscal year is coming up, it's a good time to spend all that extra money to write off as a business expense.....


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