The importance of failure and the Imposter Syndrome

[madbean]

This is something that's been on my mind a lot lately for some reason. Earlier I was commenting in the Reddit diy sub and it really brought some things into focus that I'd like to share. These are just observations/life lessons I've learned so the purpose of this thread isn't to get "oh wow, you are so wise in the WAYS of LIFE madbean!" affirmations but rather just share a little insight I've been lucky enough to attain. And perhaps that might help with some that have experienced the same issues I've struggled with. Here goes.

Failure is important. Failure is also an integral to the path of success. The only way I've truly learned anything meaningful (or with any sense of permanence) in life is by first working through the feelings that come with failing at something I care about. This can be anything, of course. For me it's been (obviously) pedal building/design. But also guitar playing. Even parenting and marriage. Some of these are small things and some are big. But, no matter what you are working at failure always invokes the same sense of self doubt. It can even lead to self hatred. But, it doesn't have to. When I finally accepted failure as a process to be worked through rather than an ending to things I cherish I was able to free myself of a lot of that baggage. And for me that took many, many years to get to.

BTW, my name is Tony Robbins and you owe me $500 for reading this far.

The dark cousin of this is Imposter Syndrome. If you are not familiar, this is an irrational fear that one can experience when you think "If people only knew how much I suck at XX then I will truly be found out for the fraud I am." It's incredibly destructive to one's self esteem. I've experienced Imposter Syndrome numerous times in my adult life. For example, I went to music school after only playing guitar for a couple of years. I felt like a fraud the entire time because there were so many people that were more talented and experienced than me (it ended up being one of the best things I ever did for myself in retrospect). When I quit music school I decided "gee I want to be a physicist!" for some stupid reason. I went on to get a degree in math and I felt that same feeling all the way through (because I fucking nearly failed Algebra in high school and even failed a couple of college math classes). But, I stuck with it an somehow graduated (barely).

In college I played drums in a band even though I was a shitty drummer. Later on I played bass in a band that was, no joke, ranked among one of the worst gigging bands in Dallas (FU Zack, I still have the newspaper clipping somewhere and we were kinda good). Lastly, I started the commercial aspect of madbeanpedals after a few years of hobby building and for a long time I felt like I sucked. There are many people who have actual EE pedigrees doing this stuff and I'm just some guy. I've even said numerous times there are people on this forum that know a lot more about electronics than I do! It took me several years to actually appreciate what I had accomplished and feel like it mattered in some way. I believed in it, but I retained some kind of guilt or doubt through that process for quite a while.

I've come to appreciate the inherent value in all these experiences rather than using them as an excuse to give up. Challenging oneself is probably the most important thing we can do to find purpose in DOING. Doing is different than BEING, and BEING is much more about accepting the joy of NOTHING important at all (thanks Lao Tzu). I still fail constantly, but every iteration of failure followed by some small success is now what motivates instead of serving as an excuse or acceptance that I am somehow inadequate.

(If you've read this far I am sorry to say you are now in a cult and I am your man-god. Don't worry, you can ascend to a higher plane with regular payments to my personal bank account.)

Anyway, long winded and maybe self serving diatribe has concluded. But, I'd like to hear other people's perspective/observation on failure and Imposter Syndrome so I will sticky this topic for a bit. Throw down, and be witnessed! I'd like to know I'm not the only one who spends too much time thinking about their own BS A bit left field from the average thread but maybe it will serve a purpose.

[PapaKev]

Must send Bean $$...
Must send Bean $$...
Must send Bean $$...

[harryklippton]

I grew up believing that Everything Must Be Done Perfectly The First Time And Every Time Thereafter Or Don't Do It At All™. The result is then one who believes this never does anything at all. Now I practice Fuck It Up The First Time So You Can See How Not To Fuck It Up Later™ and it's going pretty good.

I have more hobbies than any one man should. A few years ago, I wanted to learn how to carve wooden spoons, so I bought some tools and with absolutely ZERO idea how to do so, carved my first spoon. It was vaguely spoon-like and pretty rough, but it stirred macaroni and cheese pretty good. Then later I got a chance to take a lesson with a guy who made a living carving spoons. In my house, we refer to initial attempts, especially those that are less than exemplary as "first spoons." I've made a lot of "first spoon" pedals and now I love the process of learning from my mistakes

[alanp]

Yeah, you learn more when a pedal doesn't gorram work and you have to troubleshoot, than when it goes on the first pull. Failure is when you really, really learn about things. (Mostly out of necessity. But, as they say, necessity is the mother... I forget the rest.)

[cooder]

Isn't there the saying that 'fail' is just an acronym for 'first attempt in learning'.

[PapaKev]

My Father has been extremely successful in everything he gets involved in. Construction, Oil & Gas, Car Dealerships, etc. He always told me that if I ever wanted to get ahead I needed to work for myself and find something that made me money while I slept. I on the other hand saw how hard he worked and decided fairly early that I like to have fun. So, I never really had to worry about being an imposter as I never took control of anything that may have been over my head. I chose to do the opposite of everything he did (rebellion?). I'm the oldest of 3 boys so I always got the brunt end anyway so it was easier for me to give up and quit if things got to tough. At around 35 I finally grew up. After a costly divorce and a failed business I went back to school and got a degree in accounting and business admin. First let me say, my father never gave us anything. If we wanted something we had to work for it. That's not to say we couldn't count on him is we were ever in a bind. We also knew that if we ever did get in a bind, a long sermon would precede any help, if any. I've never taken a job for the money. It had to be something I enjoyed or I didn't do it. Because of this I've never made a great salary, good yes, great, no. My regret I guess will be that I left a lot on the table. I could have done much better for myself than I have. However, once you get past a certain age you lean more towards stability than risk. I also listened to too many people telling me some ideas would never work. I listened to them to much when I was younger. I wish I would have stuck my neck out and tried a few things. It would have been much easier to recover from when I was younger. I admire people who tackle things that might be a little out of their comfort zone. It's really the only way to grow.

[madbean]

I grew up believing that Everything Must Be Done Perfectly The First Time And Every Time Thereafter Or Don't Do It At All™. The result is then one who believes this never does anything at all. Now I practice Fuck It Up The First Time So You Can See How Not To Fuck It Up Later™ and it's going pretty good.

I have more hobbies than any one man should. A few years ago, I wanted to learn how to carve wooden spoons, so I bought some tools and with absolutely ZERO idea how to do so, carved my first spoon. It was vaguely spoon-like and pretty rough, but it stirred macaroni and cheese pretty good. Then later I got a chance to take a lesson with a guy who made a living carving spoons. In my house, we refer to initial attempts, especially those that are less than exemplary as "first spoons." I've made a lot of "first spoon" pedals and now I love the process of learning from my mistakes

Yeah I can relate to a lot of this. That feeling of wanting things to be done in a perfect way when that's not really what's important. Throwing yourself in the deep end is a good thing to do for yourself!

Hopefully my word barf last night isn't too over the top for everyone. There might have been a glass or two wine involved! But, sometimes you just gotta get things out of your system.

[davent]

I grew up believing that Everything Must Be Done Perfectly The First Time And Every Time Thereafter Or Don't Do It At All™. The result is then one who believes this never does anything at all. Now I practice Fuck It Up The First Time So You Can See How Not To Fuck It Up Later™ and it's going pretty good.

I have more hobbies than any one man should. A few years ago, I wanted to learn how to carve wooden spoons, so I bought some tools and with absolutely ZERO idea how to do so, carved my first spoon. It was vaguely spoon-like and pretty rough, but it stirred macaroni and cheese pretty good. Then later I got a chance to take a lesson with a guy who made a living carving spoons. In my house, we refer to initial attempts, especially those that are less than exemplary as "first spoons." I've made a lot of "first spoon" pedals and now I love the process of learning from my mistakes

Yeah I can relate to a lot of this. That feeling of wanting things to be done in a perfect way when that's not really what's important. Throwing yourself in the deep end is a good thing to do for yourself!

Hopefully my word barf last night isn't too over the top for everyone. There might have been a glass or two wine involved! But, sometimes you just gotta get things out of your system.

... not to mention the vaccine hangover...

Thanks for sharing Brian (& others), good stuff! 
dave

[gordo]

I really like this post.  TBH I cruised thru high school with minimal effort and a lot of opportunities got handed to me just because I was the right person, in the right place, at the right time.  I made a career out of it, and after a 5 year stint on the road I totally switched gears to the "real job" market.  I've always felt a similar guilt in whether or not I deserved to be where I am.  8 years ago I got let go from an electrical contractor I was a PM for (after a corporate buy out) and it shook me to the core.  I've since had a chance to rebuild myself and although I still struggle with personal issues (WFH has sort of exaggerated my hermit tendencies), that perceived failure has added a lot of strength to my perceived success.  It's sometimes a fleeting perception but as I cruise closer to retirement I realize that I've earned everything I have moving forward into retirement (still a good 3 years out), and the teamwork of my wife's insight into how the finances work will get us across the finish line and keep us relatively comfortable.  My plan would have us in a cardboard box and eating cat food.

[lars]

Michael Jordan got cut the first time he tried out for High School basketball.
The Beatles, Eddie Van Halen, and Stevie Ray Vaughn were all passed over when they were first presented to a record label.
Tony Hawk has lots of scars from tricks he didn't pull off.
Everybody falls down. It's how you get back up that people remember the most.

[matmosphere]

Perfection is the arch enemy of completion. The Joker to your Batman if you will, or perhaps even better the imperial fleet to your Death Star 2 attack... it's a f-ckin trap.

A couple of years ago I adopted the mantra "stumbling from one disaster to the next as gracefully as possible", which is just another way of saying I try to learn what I can from mistakes and move on.

If your success to fail ratio is better than 1:10 then you are ahead of the game. If it's 1:1 then you aren't trying hard enough. At least I'm pretty sure that's how the math works, I checked it out. It is a rather elegant relation, dare I say.. perfect ;p

Or perhaps it is my turn to have a glass of wine and post. Have a pleasant night all.

[midwayfair]

I just figure we're all worm food in the end, and hence the universe doesn't care how much most of us fail.

[gordo]

You know there's a ton of logic there.  If you're of the mindset that a higher power is involved then it becomes almost justifiable no matter how you spin it.

To get out of the deep end for a sec I have a poster that reads "Mistakes...It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others."

[harryklippton]

To get out of the deep end for a sec I have a poster that reads "Mistakes...It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others."

I have a sign in my office at work that says DONE IS BETTER THAN PERFECT

[Aentons]

I don't know guys there is a lot of gray area between perfect and fail. What is acceptable to some can be a total waste of time to others. Different strokes for different folks ya know... I would say that most people don't strive to fail(for learning) or to be perfect, but are just after a sense of accomplishment and have different tolerances for what it takes to get there.

Of course, I do everything perfectly every time so what do I know