Need advice from any Envirotex experts out there

[dlazzarini]

I've been fiddling around with the epoxy on some test boxes and I've got to the point where I can get it applied real purdy. Problem I'm running into is that it doesn't play very nice with water slide decals when it comes to A) drilling, B) cleaning out pre-drilled holes. I've tried it a number of different ways being ultra careful but I seem to be getting the same results. Seems like the epoxy doesn't bond well with the decal and I get separation like an air bubble between the decal and the epoxy. This happens whether drilling new holes or to a smaller extent while cleaning pre- drilled holes with the x-acto knife or drill bit but it's still there.  I doubt it's the decal pulling free because the separation appears between the two. I tried drilling a hole on part of the box with no decal and got great results. I've tried on epoxy that I tested 6 months ago and some I did 4 days ago, same thing. So what are your secrets if there are any. I really like the way it looks but if this is an inherent flaw that can't be remedied I don't want to deal with it.

[jimilee]

I use step less drill bits.


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[matmosphere]

Jimi is right those stepped drill bits will solve your problem. Although I used to predrill holes then let the epoxy fall through the holes when I poured and just cut out the epoxy with an x-acto knife after it dries. It will leave a tiny slope around the holes, but it was barely noticeable. 

Ultimately I though ET was to much of a pain and started using a hard drying spray lacquer instead. 

[davent]

I've no experience with resins so just throwing ideas out there... would a reamer do a better job, anyone tried running the drill backwards?
dave

[m-Kresol]

I have summed up my findings about envirotex in my etching tutorial - linked in my signature. However, I have not tried it with decals, which might change things. However, I basically do what Juan and Cleggy did for years and who are undisputably excellent in pouring envirotex.
Basically, apply the decal, cut out the holes, cover the holes from the back, pour the epoxy and fill up the holes. Once dried, drill it from the top with a step bit.

I've no experience with resins so just throwing ideas out there... would a reamer do a better job, anyone tried running the drill backwards?
dave

drilling it from the back is making things worse as you push the epoxy away from the enclosure which gives noticable air bubbles below (makes it look opaque rather than clear). this also happens when the drill pulls on the epoxy while drilling them out (not sure why that happens sometimes... drill speed, dull bits?)

[davent]

I have summed up my findings about envirotex in my etching tutorial - linked in my signature. However, I have not tried it with decals, which might change things. However, I basically do what Juan and Cleggy did for years and who are undisputably excellent in pouring envirotex.
Basically, apply the decal, cut out the holes, cover the holes from the back, pour the epoxy and fill up the holes. Once dried, drill it from the top with a step bit.

I've no experience with resins so just throwing ideas out there... would a reamer do a better job, anyone tried running the drill backwards?
dave

drilling it from the back is making things worse as you push the epoxy away from the enclosure which gives noticable air bubbles below (makes it look opaque rather than clear). this also happens when the drill pulls on the epoxy while drilling them out (not sure why that happens sometimes... drill speed, dull bits?)

Language misunderstanding... backwards, i'm meaning the drill bit is spinning in reverse so the cutting edge of the bit is moving away from the material being removed rather cutting into the material being removed.

dave

[Bio77]

It sounds to me that the waterslide is pulling up from the enclosure when you are drilling.  I've found baking the waterslide for ~30min at 125-200F makes it permanently attached.  That might help.  After baking you can't just peel off the waterslide, it's really on there.  You need to be careful though, if you get the temperature too hot you can start to discolor the decal.  I cooked a white one too hot and it turned brown.  Recently, I used a new toaster oven that I wasn't familiar with and it got too hot, the green color on my clear label changed to blue.  It still looked cool though.

[jimilee]

I have summed up my findings about envirotex in my etching tutorial - linked in my signature. However, I have not tried it with decals, which might change things. However, I basically do what Juan and Cleggy did for years and who are undisputably excellent in pouring envirotex.
Basically, apply the decal, cut out the holes, cover the holes from the back, pour the epoxy and fill up the holes. Once dried, drill it from the top with a step bit.

I've no experience with resins so just throwing ideas out there... would a reamer do a better job, anyone tried running the drill backwards?
dave

drilling it from the back is making things worse as you push the epoxy away from the enclosure which gives noticable air bubbles below (makes it look opaque rather than clear). this also happens when the drill pulls on the epoxy while drilling them out (not sure why that happens sometimes... drill speed, dull bits?)

I used to cut it out first, then use painters tape to cover the holes from the back before pouring. I just got lazy. Step less bits go through the water slide just as easily.


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[dlazzarini]

Thanks guys for all of the advice. Unfortunately I think I've tried almost all of these with some results better than others but ultimately still getting a degree of separation. I know for sure the decal isn't pulling up. I did bake it on. I pulled up on the epoxy where it separated near the hole and was able to remove a good amount of it and the decal was still nice and tight on the enclosure. It sucks because I've got to the point where I can pour it perfect and the enclosure looks sweet. This one flaw may be my deal killer

[pickdropper]

I haven't used Envirotex in a long time, but when I did, I settles on drilling the holes and then taping them from the back.  Once the epoxy cured, I carefully cut out out with an exacto knife, taking care to only cut on the downstroke so the epoxy didn't pull up.

[davent]

Rather taping the back of the hole and then filling the holes with resin. would using tape around the rim of the hole, within the hole,  to create a dam and prevent the resin from ever getting in the hole, might work better.
dave

[jimilee]

Thanks guys for all of the advice. Unfortunately I think I've tried almost all of these with some results better than others but ultimately still getting a degree of separation. I know for sure the decal isn't pulling up. I did bake it on. I pulled up on the epoxy where it separated near the hole and was able to remove a good amount of it and the decal was still nice and tight on the enclosure. It sucks because I've got to the point where I can pour it perfect and the enclosure looks sweet. This one flaw may be my deal killer

What is your curing time?


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[dlazzarini]

Cure time doesn't seem to be it. I've tried it from 4 days to 6months. Same results. It's just an issue bonding to the decal. I tried drilling a spot on an old test box that was just powder coat with no decal and it worked out great. The decal itself is baked on and bonded very well it's the envirotex that pulls away from the decal. I'm wondering if it the acrylic clear coat that I seal the decal with that's not playing well with the epoxy. What do you guys set your decals with?  I've always used the krylon crystal clear acrylic.

[jimilee]

I'll be honest with you, I switched away from water slide to HP120G presentation (Laser) paper. I use double sided tape to bond it to the enclosure.  I did notice on one enclosure, when the pour was too thin, it pulled away. It's the only time it happened though.


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[dlazzarini]

I may eventually go that route. I'm not quite ready to fork out the dough for a laser printer just yet. I am getting rather burned out on the whole water slide thing. I'm to OCD for water slide. It becomes exhausting trying to get everything perfect.