The Official Coronavirus Discussion

[Aentons]

"For example, it's unlikely any coronavirus would survive as a stowaway on or inside packages mailed from China to the United States. "In general, because of the poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, that's in the range of hours, there's likely a very, very, very low if any risk of spread from products or packaging that is shipped over a period of days or weeks in ambient temperatures," Messonnier (of the CDC) says."
https://elemental.medium.com/your-most-pressing-questions-about-the-coronavirus-answered-c99bff5f02e9
edit: quoted the wrong reply

I feel horrible for asking this, but are you guys still ordering (or going to order) PCBs from Chinese fab houses, in light of all this?

From Peter at VFE

Out of an abundance of caution regarding the coronavirus outbreak (officially known as COVID-19) in China, I will be letting the SPS system "air out" for 1 week before testing & shipment.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/studio-power-switching-system-for-guitar-pedals#/updates/all

[lrgaraujo]

Just wanted to say that even in topics totally unrelated to music and pedals, this forum is one of the greatest sources of content I know in the webs. If not for the information (which was great in this topic, btw), at least people are always polite and willing to learn.

Sorry if this sounds cheesy  , but with me hanging around for years (mostly lurking) some praise was long overdue

[DLW]

Just wanted to say that even in topics totally unrelated to music and pedals, this forum is one of the greatest sources of content I know in the webs. If not for the information (which was great in this topic, btw), at least people are always polite and willing to learn.

Sorry if this sounds cheesy  , but with me hanging around for years (mostly lurking) some praise was long overdue

This is honestly my favorite part of the hobby. The people are high quality.

I drag race (or used to). There are good people that race, but the toxic culture really sucks the life out of it in the US.

[Scruffie]

"For example, it's unlikely any coronavirus would survive as a stowaway on or inside packages mailed from China to the United States. "In general, because of the poor survivability of these coronaviruses on surfaces, that's in the range of hours, there's likely a very, very, very low if any risk of spread from products or packaging that is shipped over a period of days or weeks in ambient temperatures," Messonnier (of the CDC) says."
https://elemental.medium.com/your-most-pressing-questions-about-the-coronavirus-answered-c99bff5f02e9
edit: quoted the wrong reply

I feel horrible for asking this, but are you guys still ordering (or going to order) PCBs from Chinese fab houses, in light of all this?

From Peter at VFE

Out of an abundance of caution regarding the coronavirus outbreak (officially known as COVID-19) in China, I will be letting the SPS system "air out" for 1 week before testing & shipment.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/studio-power-switching-system-for-guitar-pedals#/updates/all

So short answer, don't worry at all, just make sure your postal worker keeps his finger out of his nose
Sure he's just doing that to calm worried people rather than thinking it's necessary.

I've found the most worrying thing about all this is that people still need to be told to wash their hands and believe that some casual (or not so casual) racism will keep illness away from them.
Edit: Just to clarify, I don't mean concern over ordering from China

[thesmokingman]

according to this year's grade school science experiment, the 30 second hospital-style hand wash with soap and water was more effective than hand sanitizer across the three trials we were able to run on the single order of petri dishes ...
I'm not really concerned about the sorts of things I've been ordering here lately direct from China (pentesting devices) being a viable infectious disease vector. I'm more worried about the coworker from Vietnam that managed to get stateside right before the travel restrictions came and even then I'm like "well, its about time I got some usage out of my health insurance"

[somnif]

In regards to hand washing vs hand sanitizer: Yes, soap and water are MUCH MUCH better than hand sanitizer.

BUT, if you're out and about and can't get to a sink at that moment, a bit of alcohol gel is better than nothing (for example, after using an ATM or self-chekout station at the grocery store). Enveloped viruses are absolutely flimsy when it comes to solvents like alcohol, so even with a short contact time you get really thorough inactivation.

But seriously, just wash your hands. And avoid touching your face holes until you can. 

[madbean]

My wife went into "prepper mode" right when the news hit. At first I was bemused but actually I'm glad we have several extra days worth of food stored. Even if this turns out to be mild here in the US it doesn't hurt to have some preparation.

Our retirement has taken a pretty severe beating with the stock market (like a shocking amount) but that's nothing in comparison to the people suffering here and overseas right now.

[Scruffie]

In regards to hand washing vs hand sanitizer: Yes, soap and water are MUCH MUCH better than hand sanitizer.

BUT, if you're out and about and can't get to a sink at that moment, a bit of alcohol gel is better than nothing (for example, after using an ATM or self-chekout station at the grocery store). Enveloped viruses are absolutely flimsy when it comes to solvents like alcohol, so even with a short contact time you get really thorough inactivation.

But seriously, just wash your hands. And avoid touching your face holes until you can.

I'll ask rather than state as you're the microbiologist so I'll bow to you but my understanding is anti-bacterial soap (and this is a virus rather than bacteria anyway) is a con at best and potentially dangerous at worse?

My wife went into "prepper mode" right when the news hit. At first I was bemused but actually I'm glad we have several extra days worth of food stored. Even if this turns out to be mild here in the US it doesn't hurt to have some preparation.

Even if I had a bad cold (and in your case if it spread to your wife too) I'd want to be 'prepped' for a week just so I didn't have to drag my self to the shops!

But people buy the damn weirdest things when they actually panic buy, for some reason breakfast ingredients are the most important? (At least in the UK). The world is burning, but I'll be damned if I can't have an egg on toast with milky tea!

[mjg]

Here in Australia there are reports of toilet paper being sold out.  I'm not sure what those people are thinking...are they going to eat the toilet paper?  Surely stockpiling canned food would be more useful?

The media reporting seems to be pretty sensationalist - each new case is a major headline.  If it was the usual flu, it wouldn't be headlines like this. 

[Scruffie]

Here in Australia there are reports of toilet paper being sold out.  I'm not sure what those people are thinking...are they going to eat the toilet paper?  Surely stockpiling canned food would be more useful?

The media reporting seems to be pretty sensationalist - each new case is a major headline.  If it was the usual flu, it wouldn't be headlines like this.

It's a double edged sword, it sells papers and is sensationalist "12 new infected!" might as well be "The dead walk the earth!" but people do also need all the information they can get to prevent a further spread and if it's under-reported, a lot of people would write off things like 'basic hygiene'. It's not that bad (and for most of the demographic here, probably not much more dangerous than the usual flu from the current info) but it's not something you'd want to become seasonal if you could avoid it.

[benny_profane]

In regards to hand washing vs hand sanitizer: Yes, soap and water are MUCH MUCH better than hand sanitizer.

BUT, if you're out and about and can't get to a sink at that moment, a bit of alcohol gel is better than nothing (for example, after using an ATM or self-chekout station at the grocery store). Enveloped viruses are absolutely flimsy when it comes to solvents like alcohol, so even with a short contact time you get really thorough inactivation.

But seriously, just wash your hands. And avoid touching your face holes until you can.

During infectious diseases and food- and water-borne illnesses courses, I was very surprised at how little hand sanitizer did after swabbing and growing cultures.

I do believe that this will recycle and come back next year. Keep these thoughts fresh and consider the importance of public health systems and disaster response and preparation. It's rather concerning how this has been able to send shocks through domestic and international systems the world over.

[somnif]

I'll ask rather than state as you're the microbiologist so I'll bow to you but my understanding is anti-bacterial soap (and this is a virus rather than bacteria anyway) is a con at best and potentially dangerous at worse?

Personally I avoid antibacterial soap as a matter of course. In this case, it does absolutely nothing more (or less) than any other soap against viruses. It's all a matter of the soap and mechanical action of scrubbing your hands that matters. Warm water is marginally better than cold (bit more solvent efficacy) but as long as you use soap you're good.

During infectious diseases and food- and water-borne illnesses courses, I was very surprised at how little hand sanitizer did after swabbing and growing cultures.

Yeah, against bacteria, alcohol based hand sanitizer evaporates far too quickly to really do anything (too short a contact time). However, against SOME viruses, it works almost instantly. Enveloped viruses, like influenza and SARS-CoV, rely on a lipid envelope (outer coating layer) to actually infect a cell. The alcohol in sanitizers actually disrupts this lipid layer on contact, rendering the virus non-infective, and thus harmless.

It's not perfect protection, as some respiratory particles result in the virions being protected (basically a little shell of snot around the virus) and you can't guarantee that the gel actually gets to every part of your hands to inactivate. But again, in this particular case, it's certainly better than nothing. I'll see if I can dig up the journal articles that show the efficacy rates when I get to a real computer later.

[EBK]

Ok, first of all, calling it "Coronavirus" is a bit vague. That is the name for the group of viruses this bug belongs to, rather like if you referred to the RAT, DS-1, and Shredmaster all as "Distortion" and nothing more. Officially, this is "2019-nCoV" or "COVID-2019". For reference, SARS back in 2003 and MERS back in 2012 were also Coronaviruses.

The name comes from the shape of the virus itself, has a sorta "decorated" look that the described as "crown-like", hence, corona.

Is this you? 

[benny_profane]

I'll ask rather than state as you're the microbiologist so I'll bow to you but my understanding is anti-bacterial soap (and this is a virus rather than bacteria anyway) is a con at best and potentially dangerous at worse?

Personally I avoid antibacterial soap as a matter of course. In this case, it does absolutely nothing more (or less) than any other soap against viruses. It's all a matter of the soap and mechanical action of scrubbing your hands that matters. Warm water is marginally better than cold (bit more solvent efficacy) but as long as you use soap you're good.

During infectious diseases and food- and water-borne illnesses courses, I was very surprised at how little hand sanitizer did after swabbing and growing cultures.

Yeah, against bacteria, alcohol based hand sanitizer evaporates far too quickly to really do anything (too short a contact time). However, against SOME viruses, it works almost instantly. Enveloped viruses, like influenza and SARS-CoV, rely on a lipid envelope (outer coating layer) to actually infect a cell. The alcohol in sanitizers actually disrupts this lipid layer on contact, rendering the virus non-infective, and thus harmless.

It's not perfect protection, as some respiratory particles result in the virions being protected (basically a little shell of snot around the virus) and you can't guarantee that the gel actually gets to every part of your hands to inactivate. But again, in this particular case, it's certainly better than nothing. I'll see if I can dig up the journal articles that show the efficacy rates when I get to a real computer later.

Water, sanitation, and hygiene (WASH) are major focuses of communicable disease interventions—particularly in community and hospital settings. To your point about antimicrobial soaps vs the non-antimicrobial soaps, the mechanical motion is indeed key (assuming that there's access to non-contaminated water). That introduces an important point with hand sanitizer: the motion most people use pushes the alcohol solution from the palm of their hand to the tips. For non-enveloped viruses, this can push them to the fingertips where they are more likely to come into contact with mucus membranes. For gram positive, spore-forming bacteria (especially C. diff.) hand sanitizers have been found to have no improvement over no intervention, and that motion can again concentrate cultures on the fingertips. Overall, hand sanitizers are not robust solutions to hand washing and efficacy varies widely by pathogen.

[alanp]

Somnif, I heard that some hospitals got rid of their alcohol hand sanitizer stations, as staff were not washing their hands and just using that -- was this true?