Lovetone re-enters the mainstream (kinda)

[LaceSensor]

JHS has put out a mass produced clone of his own 1995 Big Cheese
He has called it the Cheeseball which doubles the irony as Vlad from Lovetone talked of releasing a new product in 2015 called... the Cheeseball

This announcement has already drawn some Umbrage from Dan Coggins who designed the Lovetone pedals.

I say all fair in love(tone) and war - I just hope JHS did it right
I await gutshots with baited breath

[Muadzin]

The Big Cheese? Meh, too common, too easy. Call me once JHS starts cloning the modulation pedals. Those are the fun ones.

[LaceSensor]

The Big Cheese? Meh, too common, too easy. Call me once JHS starts cloning the modulation pedals. Those are the fun ones.

Cant say I disagree.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

The Big Cheese? Meh, too common, too easy.

Exactly! But, a smart decision in my opinion.

After all... how many times do you read "Look at this new Fuzz I just built" or "Can someone help me debug this Fuzz pedal?" as compared to other projects. Fuzz and OD dominate the market.

[dawson]

So if the "Big Cheese" is cloned as the "Cheese Ball".. will JHS release a Lovetone envelope filter clone called the "Big Meat?"

[skyled]

So if the "Big Cheese" is cloned as the "Cheese Ball".. will JHS release a Lovetone envelope filter clone called the "Big Meat?"

It's gotta be the Meaty Balls

[dawson]

It's gotta be the Meaty Balls

I'd happily stomp either.

[alanp]

So if the "Big Cheese" is cloned as the "Cheese Ball".. will JHS release a Lovetone envelope filter clone called the "Big Meat?"

Mystery Meat, more like.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

This announcement has already drawn some Umbrage from Dan Coggins who designed the Lovetone pedals.

Do you have a link to any verbage from Dan on this subject? Interested in reading his thoughts...

EDIT: Nevermind... found it.

[lars]

When I hear "JHS has put out (whatever)...", I can't help but think of this:

[thorpy6]

I rarely post here...... but weirdly Dan pointed this thread out to me. I've posted this text elsewhere mainly in defence of Dan who is trying to stay out of the online discourse as it gets him down.

Here's  the thing Dan isn't out of the industry, Dan works with me and we are working on and will be releasing new circuits all the time. For legal reasons Dan could not use the original trade dress, circuit layout etc. Now whilst legally, cloning wholesale has become an accepted practice in this industry, it is only human nature to be aggrieved as a designer if you are not compensated for your work. It happens all the time in the music biz, but there people have protection and often people are compensated if their art is "borrowed"

I get it, people want the rare expensive thing and they want it as cheap as possible. But there is a LOT more complexity to this situation than is obvious from first glance.
People will rail on Dan without knowing him but I'll just say this, when you are beaten to the punch in making your own work more readily available and you can see others getting paid for that work (and you don't) then I defy anyone to be happy about that situation. Yes that is our fault for not moving faster, but my company isn't as big as others so there is only so much I can achieve in the 14hrs working hours in a day.

That being said, we are evolving these past gems, they won't just be 1:1 clones and they are cool. More importantly Dan will get paid for his work.

Ps. Dan tried to delete the comments, but you know screenshots save that stuff forever.... lol

FWIW Dan is one of the good guys in this world, he's a great mate of mine and would do anything for anyone in need.

[LaceSensor]

I rarely post here...... but weirdly Dan pointed this thread out to me. I've posted this text elsewhere mainly in defence of Dan who is trying to stay out of the online discourse as it gets him down.

Here's  the thing Dan isn't out of the industry, Dan works with me and we are working on and will be releasing new circuits all the time. For legal reasons Dan could not use the original trade dress, circuit layout etc. Now whilst legally, cloning wholesale has become an accepted practice in this industry, it is only human nature to be aggrieved as a designer if you are not compensated for your work. It happens all the time in the music biz, but there people have protection and often people are compensated if their art is "borrowed"

I get it, people want the rare expensive thing and they want it as cheap as possible. But there is a LOT more complexity to this situation than is obvious from first glance.
People will rail on Dan without knowing him but I'll just say this, when you are beaten to the punch in making your own work more readily available and you can see others getting paid for that work (and you don't) then I defy anyone to be happy about that situation. Yes that is our fault for not moving faster, but my company isn't as big as others so there is only so much I can achieve in the 14hrs working hours in a day.

That being said, we are evolving these past gems, they won't just be 1:1 clones and they are cool. More importantly Dan will get paid for his work.

Ps. Dan tried to delete the comments, but you know screenshots save that stuff forever.... lol

FWIW Dan is one of the good guys in this world, he's a great mate of mine and would do anything for anyone in need.

I think in this whole episode, what is frustrating the most to me personally* is that JHS mentioned they even spoke to Dan in their Lovetone podcast, and yet, he didn't feel inclined to speak to Dan again about releasing on a mass scale the Big Cheese design - allegedly - part for part.

This would have given Dan and yourself the heads up, because tooling up for this release would have taken at least a modicum of time to do which may have informed your release schedule.

I would say however stick to your guns, put the Big Cheese update out there. You might even have a chance to discredit JHS because I would bet that his clone doesn't use the exact same parts as the Big cheese and is therefore not 100% the same as his '95... (which appears to be the major selling point here).



*second most is all the TGP-ers rocking this sound. I feel less elitist already, sat here with my Big Cheese and Cheese Source originals

[Muadzin]

The Big Cheese? Meh, too common, too easy.

Exactly! But, a smart decision in my opinion.

After all... how many times do you read "Look at this new Fuzz I just built" or "Can someone help me debug this Fuzz pedal?" as compared to other projects. Fuzz and OD dominate the market.

I can see the newbies wanting to clone a dirtbox first, as those are kinda easy to troubleshoot, but what's the excuse of all the professional pedal builders? There's like a gazillion fuzz and OD pedals out there, 99% of them a variation on one of only a couple of themes. The world doesn't need yet another fuzz/OD pedal. They all sound the same anyway. Is Lovetone too hard to clone for all these professionals?

I rarely post here...... but weirdly Dan pointed this thread out to me. I've posted this text elsewhere mainly in defence of Dan who is trying to stay out of the online discourse as it gets him down.

Here's  the thing Dan isn't out of the industry, Dan works with me and we are working on and will be releasing new circuits all the time. For legal reasons Dan could not use the original trade dress, circuit layout etc. Now whilst legally, cloning wholesale has become an accepted practice in this industry, it is only human nature to be aggrieved as a designer if you are not compensated for your work. It happens all the time in the music biz, but there people have protection and often people are compensated if their art is "borrowed"

I get it, people want the rare expensive thing and they want it as cheap as possible. But there is a LOT more complexity to this situation than is obvious from first glance.
People will rail on Dan without knowing him but I'll just say this, when you are beaten to the punch in making your own work more readily available and you can see others getting paid for that work (and you don't) then I defy anyone to be happy about that situation. Yes that is our fault for not moving faster, but my company isn't as big as others so there is only so much I can achieve in the 14hrs working hours in a day.

That being said, we are evolving these past gems, they won't just be 1:1 clones and they are cool. More importantly Dan will get paid for his work.

Ps. Dan tried to delete the comments, but you know screenshots save that stuff forever.... lol

FWIW Dan is one of the good guys in this world, he's a great mate of mine and would do anything for anyone in need.

Lovetone has been gone for like what? 15? 20 years? If he wanted to re-release these circuits, be it in a slightly modified form for legal reasons, what took him so long? (he said obviously without knowing any of the reasons) This isn't meant as an accusation but more of an observation. Where there is demand, supply will automatically follow. The longer you wait with a re-release, the bigger the chance someone else will beat you to the punch. It's not like over the years these circuits haven't been traced. Better to beat the competition by releasing something that is not perfect now then wait until you have the perfect product later only to have the market glutted with clones already.

[LaceSensor]

Lovetone has been gone for like what? 15? 20 years?

11/12 years. The last ones were made I think in 2008
At least Dinosaural were sticking labels for technical support inside them up until 2007 to the best of my knowledge

[matmosphere]

I can totally get why Dan Coggins is upset. A lot of other industries don't work this way at all, even the record industry. If he had, for example, written a hit song then anyone who wanted to rerelease that song would have to pay him royalties and give credit.

Lovetone really stands out because of how creative and innovative their designs were, and I think people in DIY and the industry respect that. I do think this would obviously been a different story if Dan had gotten a heads up before hand.

Ultimately though, if Dan and thorpy are going to rerelease some of these pedals this whole JHS thing could be good for drumming up some press for them. Pedal buyers listen to Josh, and him doing this is gonna bring some more attention to Dan's work.