Shriveling beans (thread title change)

[culturejam]

(don't major in journalism).

QFT

Career change is now fait accompli and I'm running out of time to figure that one out.

I've managed to do fairly well with an English degree (double minored in linguistics and technical writing), but I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.

I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.

[gordo]

The title change cracks me up.

I agree with Juan, I'm stuck at about 20...till I walk past a window or mirror and think "who's the old dude?".  No complaints I've had a really good run and expect to keep doing so.

[sjaustin]

I've managed to do fairly well with an English degree (double minored in linguistics and technical writing), but I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.

I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.

Maybe it's a class of '95 thing, but this is exactly how I feel too. I wrote a blog post years ago called "Why My Son (Probably) Won't Go to College" saying basically this same thing. Led to some interesting talks with my parents. 

College debt is killing us. I'm fortunate enough to have bought a house that appreciated enough to pay off my undergrad and seminary loans, but much like CJ, I don't recommend trying to follow my path.

[sonnyboy27]

...I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.

I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.

I've been saying this same thing since I started college. I think we overlook trade schools far too often which is a darn shame. But I think it's due to the way we as a culture tend to look down upon the blue-collar worker in favor of the white-collar business man due to media portrayal.

...I'll just step down here now *gets off soap box*. Feel free to let me know if I'm getting out of line. My millennial self apologizes.

[zombie_rock123]

Its a rational soapbox to be on! Im not sure what hes seen as Stateside but Mike Rowe in my limited exposure champions trades. My brother did metal fabrication and Id be much happier working with my hands rather than in CRM like Ive accidentally ended up.

[madbean]

I've managed to do fairly well with an English degree (double minored in linguistics and technical writing), but I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.

I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.

That's a tough one. On one hand trades seem to be retaking the clearer path to a middle class lifestyle whereas a college degree seems to promise ever-shrinking prospects and soul crushing debt for at least a decade or more. However, we have too many dumbasses in this country already. Not that trades-people are dumbasses (they aren't), but I don't think anyone can look at America and say "now there's an education system that's firing on all cylinders". FFS, they are still trying to teach Intelligent Design in public schools up in here. College is a singular stop-gap from us descending further into Idiocracy.

[culturejam]

College is a singular stop-gap from us descending further into Idiocracy.

I don't think nobody should go to college, but I think maybe we have too many going as it is now and not enough people entering trades.

[cajone5]

I think people shouldn't expect to succeed just because they "go to college".  I've spent over a decade in college at this point in my life and I am constantly amazed at the amount of people that just show up and expect life to succeed without putting in a lot of effort.  This is why degrees are a dime a dozen now and why it's so hard to differentiate yourself from the heap of people who just went for a piece of paper.  College is not for everyone. Fortunately we're emerging from the trend that "everyone should go".  The people that want a career that needs a degree should go.  Those curious to learn should go to.  But no one who goes to college should expect to succeed in life just because they were able to eek by under the radar because the reality is, if that's  you, there's a dozen other guys and gals just like you waiting to do your job for less money.  It sucks, but it's how I've seen it play out for many.

/digression

[BrianS]

2 of my sons have done extremely well without college degrees.  One found his niche in new home sales and is now the Director of Sales for a home builder in San Antonio.  The other one was a waiter at a Sushi restaurant and a lady that worked at Rackspace (large computer hosting company in San Antonio) was impressed with him and helped him get a job.  He's in Austin now working for another computer hosting firm and making around 90k a year.  Plse don't take this as me bragging about my kids but I am very proud of what they've accomplished by having an excellent work ethic and some things roll their way.  I am still in their rear about getting a degree all the time but if you're willing to out work the other guy you can be very successful without one.  I have a BA in Criminal Justice and by the time I retired from the Air Force it did me no good because I was to old to be a cop, a federal agent, etc.... but I didn't want to do that anyway.  You almost have to have a tech degree to land something good out of college. And the comments about trade schools is a thumbs up 👍.  There's some really good money to be made in that area if you want to work in those fields.

[EBK]

What I learned in undergrad engineering school:  there is (probably) a solution to every problem.  Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble. 
(Be adventurous.)

What I learned in graduate engineering school:  No matter how smart I think I am in any particular subject, there will always be someone who is 100 times smarter in the same subject.  Also, undergraduate students will somehow think you have super powers if you can tell them within 5 seconds of looking at their breadboarded circuit that their power supply polarity is reversed.
(Be humble.)

What I learned in law school: Every yes/no question can legitimately be answered, "It depends."  Also, I don't ever want to actually work as a lawyer.
(Be open-minded.)

[madbean]

What I learned in undergrad engineering school:  there is (probably) a solution to every problem.  Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble. 
(Be adventurous.)

What I learned in college: you can calculate the rate a canonical hat fills up with vomit using Calculus (an actual problem from a T.A.). I think that was most of it.

[lars]

What I learned in undergrad engineering school:  there is (probably) a solution to every problem.  Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble. 
(Be adventurous.)

What I learned in college: you can calculate the rate a canonical hat fills up with vomit using Calculus (an actual problem from a T.A.). I think that was most of it.

What I learned in college:  everybody has the same idea. It's when you're in a class with only two other people, then you know you're onto something.

[madbean]

Actually, I just remembered part of that vomit scenario (which revolved around the TA himself) was being drugged at a party which led to the vomiting and hence the math problem. Strange guy but definitely one of the most memorable instructors I had.

[matmosphere]

I'm maybe an outlier. I got a B.S. in math 6-7 years ago and an A.S. Before that. However I don't have a high school degree. (Ironic considering my chosen vocation).

I will say that ~20 years ago when I dropped out, having a trade didn't seem like a great bet.

I really advocate for community college. It is much more affordable. You can learn a ton and get two years through a degree with minimal debt.

[reddesert]

I graduated from college in 1989.  I started learning to play guitar in 1986 - and I'm still no good at it! But a lot of that is because of me not working at it. Same thing applies to education.

I have a little different view on college. I work at a university in scientific research, so maybe I'm biased. But I think it can be very useful to get a general education - ideally it teaches you some important about our culture and about how to learn. Of course, college doesn't succeed in doing that for everyone. You definitely get more out if you put in more work.

Generally, studies show that people with college degrees have greater earning potential and flexibility. But I can't recommend taking on crippling debt to go to college. Tuition has gotten a lot more expensive since I went for a variety of reasons, including declining state support. To the extent that it's possible to go while only spending a moderate amount of money, either through college financial aid or community college / state schools, I think it's still a good investment in the long term.

I have at least two college friends who work as construction contractors (running their own businesses), and seem quite happy and successful. On the other hand, if you don't get a degree eventually, there are a lot of career paths that are hard to take. I grew up in a place with declining heavy industry (Pittsburgh), and one thing that concerns me about industry and trades is the possibility that the economy or technology can shift against you and leave you stranded with few options for repositioning yourself. This is perhaps less true if you are, say, an electrician or contractor and run your own business, but that brings its own stresses.