The Last Jedi

[Willybomb]

That Vader hallway scene in TFA was amazingly tense even though I knew how it was going to pan out.

[Freppo]

This is epic!  Great job putting these together Freppo!

Thanks 
It was fun making them, but a huga PITA to draw the lightsaber effects (frame by frame).

Regarding fight style and choreography, the original triology was mainly western swordplay influenced.
Then kung fu in the prequels. Ray Park (the actor playing Darth Maul) is a wushu practicioner (not much of an actor).

I think they have hit a good balance between different styles of martial arts in TLJ. Good choreography, but noting too over the top.
I also loved the Vader scene in R1.. But I loved the whole movie. I think Rogue One is better than both TFA and TLJ.

[juansolo]

I'm with Freppo on this, I really enjoyed Rogue One (It'll always be Rouge One to me). It's not perfect, I think I could edit some of the slack from it quite easily, and I think some of their demises were a bit throwaway. That said, I still like it because it was an adventure. You knew the group were doomed as soon as you realised that the whole plot was the opening crawl to Star Wars. But, it made me want to watch the original trilogy again straight afterwards. I see it as part of them now.

The prequels concentrated too much on trying to explain EVERYTHING. The senate, the clone wars, the origin of Vader, the downfall of the republic, the rise of the empire/emperor. Hell it even tried to explain how the force worked. That just doesn't make an interesting film. The original trilogy just glossed over things and left them a mystery. You knew from the moment Vader walks on the ship, he's completely bad ass, and he does nothing really. You know the force is essentially magic that maintains the balance of good and evil in the galaxy (for want of a better description) and people who learn to channel it are more powerful because of this. You know the Millenium Falcon is both a piece of junk and really fast. You don't need to see or even know what the kessel run is to know that. It's just a throwaway line. Everyone's reaction to the ship tells you all about it. Han straight up kills a bounty hunter the moment you meet him, you know he's a rogue. It goes on.

Star Wars is actually a tight film. But it's also a fairy tale in a sci-fi wrapper with old serial trappings. It works really well as that. As soon as you start explaining things it goes off the rails. Mystical things like the clone wars become a dull battle between loads of identical droids and loads of disposable Kiwis. The force becomes a blood disorder. The Empire, a bit of clever politics by a politician. Vader, a petulant child.

The Force Awakens I understand what they were doing with it. It was, in essence, a Star Wars reboot for the next generation. It was the first 3 films wrapped into one, and where it's enjoyable in the moment, it's disappointing afterwards when you realise it. I think it's biggest failure was putting the original cast anywhere in there. They shouldn't have done that at all. The Skywalker arc was done with ROTJ, move on. It's the universe that's interesting. The games are more interesting when they tackle other things, even when you play from the Empire's POV it can be interesting as, let's face it, it's easy to see them as the good guys just trying to bring piece in the galaxy and the rebels as terrorists trying to overthrow a government.

But on the whole, it worked. But they needed to not have the original cast go on to the next film. Which is why I'm in no hurry to see The Last Jedi. Just move on already. From TFA, you've got a really layered and by far the most interesting character in Kylo Ren. His inner conflict is awesome to watch. Rey is likable enough. Finn and Poe are a bit one dimensional, but again, likeable enough.

I'll get around to watching TLJ eventually, but in all honesty as a lifelong Star Wars fan, I'm just not bothered for it.

[Muadzin]

As he should be to the movie going public in general. But then nobody wants to buy the toy of the bad guy.

All those guys who love to dress up as storm troopers beg to differ. If anything I'd say the Imperials are way cooler then the rebels to the fanbase. I'd say when it comes to merchandise its lightsabers, imperial uniforms, imperial walkers, jedi stuff, droids and X-wings. Somewhat in that order.

I actually thought the closest thing to a lightsaber battle was the fight between Finn and Phasma, and I think that was intentionally done.

The throne room thing was a great scene but wasn't very Star Wars. It was a fight from a Kirosawa movie that they put in the middle of a Star Wars movie. No complaints from me though, it was fun to watch and I want to watch it again.

Considering that Star Wars is a rip off (or hommage) of a Kirosawa movie (The Hidden Fortress), I'd say that fight is Star Wars.

[culturejam]

But on the whole, it worked. But they needed to not have the original cast go on to the next film. Which is why I'm in no hurry to see The Last Jedi. Just move on already.

You'll probably like it then, because there is not a whole lot of old character screen time. Some, but not a whole lot (don't want to get into detail and spoil it for you). And maybe you'll like that the movie's central theme is "just move on". It's a meme repeated over and over throughout the dialog.

[matmosphere]

Several friends who are longtime fans said they thought it was much better on the second go around. I'm going to have to find some time and an excuse to see it again.

I have a little theory that makes a big plot hole make sense but I don't know that the movie hints at it or it's just wishful thinking on my part.

[alanp]

I'm with Freppo on this, I really enjoyed Rogue One (It'll always be Rouge One to me). It's not perfect, I think I could edit some of the slack from it quite easily, and I think some of their demises were a bit throwaway. That said, I still like it because it was an adventure. You knew the group were doomed as soon as you realised that the whole plot was the opening crawl to Star Wars. But, it made me want to watch the original trilogy again straight afterwards. I see it as part of them now.

Pratchett had a good point in one of his Science of Discworld books -- you know, in a Bond movie, that James Bond is going to win. Duh. Just like, when you're participating in a magic card trick, that you're going to lose.

You're watching in order to see a trick done well, or a story told well.

Star Wars is actually a tight film. But it's also a fairy tale in a sci-fi wrapper with old serial trappings. It works really well as that. As soon as you start explaining things it goes off the rails. Mystical things like the clone wars become a dull battle between loads of identical droids and loads of disposable Kiwis. The force becomes a blood disorder. The Empire, a bit of clever politics by a politician. Vader, a petulant child.

Awww, disposable Kiwis?

More seriously, it always felt a bit odd to see that kind of self-discipline from Jake the Muss. Temuera Morrison will always be the abusive, broken, angry man from _Once Were Warriors_, to me. (Just like he'll always be a mildmannered doctor from the serial _Shortland Street_ to others )

[mremic01]

Considering that Star Wars is a rip off (or hommage) of a Kirosawa movie (The Hidden Fortress), I'd say that fight is Star Wars.

Star Wars was originally an homage to a lot of things. If you read old interviews with Lucas, it seems he had different ideas for it at different times and it all kind of coalesced into several different drafts of varying quality that his friends helped him tweak. He was slated to direct Apocalypse Now, but it didn't pan out, so he described it his Vietnam War movie for awhile. Then he got into Akira Kurosawa's films and toyed with doing a remake of The Hidden Fortress. A lot of the elements from The Hidden Fortress show Up in Star Wars, particularly the idea of having the action come from the perspective of two bumbling peasants/droids. But Star Wars departs from the The Hidden Fortress too much to be just a sci-fi themed westernization of the same story. Then Lucas goes on about the old sci-fi serials like Buck Rogers, usually in the context of how he intended to break things up into multiple episodes. He also pays homage to The Searchers, a pretty great western where John Wayne plays a racist anti-hero. That scene with Owen and Beru's smoking corpses is meant to be a direct reference to that movie. Even a lot of the cinematography on Tatooine is done in a similar style to the desert shots in The Searchers.

Then there's a little bit of Dune in there too, but I think Lucas keeps quite about that. I draw the line between ripoff and homage where the creator admits influence. Lucas is open about most of his influences, but I've never heard him mention Dune. But it's also possible that the similarities between Arakkis and Tatooine weren't intentional, so who knows.

[juansolo]

But on the whole, it worked. But they needed to not have the original cast go on to the next film. Which is why I'm in no hurry to see The Last Jedi. Just move on already.

You'll probably like it then, because there is not a whole lot of old character screen time. Some, but not a whole lot (don't want to get into detail and spoil it for you). And maybe you'll like that the movie's central theme is "just move on". It's a meme repeated over and over throughout the dialog.

Definitely more interested now *thumbs up*

[Leevibe]

Watching TLJ has had me in a starwars-ish mood. We watched Rogue 1 and then the original trilogy over the last few days. It's really fun having seen Luke in his most mature form and then going back and watching him as the whiny youngster. For me there is really believable continuity. I never could buy into the young Anakin becoming Vader. It's just impossible. To a lesser degree, Leia doesn't work for me continuity-wise. With Luke it's hook line and sinker for me. I'm looking forward to watching it a third time while it's still in the theater.

I also really enjoy the arc that Kylo's character is taking. His struggle is palpable and his fits of rage are believable and terrifying. And they seem to only be escalating which is kind of fun.

I think the reason the comic relief in TLJ isn't working for a lot of people is because a lot of the comedy isn't really relief. It's just there. But I think it's fitting for the characters in play. What makes Poe funny, for example, can't be what made Han funny. That would be insulting. The first bit of humor felt out of place initially to me because of its juxtaposition against the threatening monologuing that was going on. It felt a bit more Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars until I accounted for the personalities of the characters at play. It felt weird in terms of pacing but true to the characters. Speaking of Guardians of the Galaxy, there was a certain part with a certain general that felt like a bit of a ripoff.

[culturejam]

I never could buy into the young Anakin becoming Vader. It's just impossible. To a lesser degree, Leia doesn't work for me continuity-wise.

The reason it's hard to buy in to Anakin becoming Vader is because both actors that portrayed Anakin were directed to act terribly and it ruined the whole plot line. As a concept, it's perfectly believable, in my opinion. Leia is believable to me as well. There's nothing that she's done in these last two Episode films that seems out of line with her history as a leader of a rebellion, at least not to me.

The first bit of humor felt out of place initially to me because of its juxtaposition against the threatening monologuing that was going on. It felt a bit more Guardians of the Galaxy than Star Wars until I accounted for the personalities of the characters at play.

I agree that the first bit of humor seemed over the top. But really, that's how Poe deals with stress (and if you're about to do something that will likely get you killed, why not joke around?). And General Hux has a stick so far up his ass that he doesn't realize the humor. I know people like that, so it ended up being super funny to me.

[Muadzin]

I never could buy into the young Anakin becoming Vader. It's just impossible. To a lesser degree, Leia doesn't work for me continuity-wise.

The reason it's hard to buy in to Anakin becoming Vader is because both actors that portrayed Anakin were directed to act terribly and it ruined the whole plot line. As a concept, it's perfectly believable, in my opinion.

I think it was not just the poor acting, the storyline was unbelievable too. On the one hand we have a character we should root for having a tragic fall, but we don't root for him because we hate his guts. And on the other hand his tragic fall was just plain stupid. Again, I have seen fan fiction with better storylines and execution handle things better then Lucas did with the prequels. It was just badly written. Him going Dark Side over some vision? At the very least show us, the audience his vision. Repeatedly. In all the gore and technicolor. Show us why he was so troubled. But that aside, if it were up to me I'd have him go Dark Side over the death of his mother. Let him find out it was some Sith. And let him go over the course of three movies slowly but surely become consumed by a burning desire for vengeance, until not even the love of his wife and his friendships could save him until he kills the Sith responsible. And by doing so become the very thing he despises. And let him be actually likable. A person that others would willingly follow into battle. And drag with him into his fall.

[Willybomb]

Freppo, I reckon I saw both those videos back when they were first done.  Someone posted them to the overclockers.com.au forums, I think..

[fair.child]

I didn't know that Kylo Ren served US Marine previously.

[Freppo]

Freppo, I reckon I saw both those videos back when they were first done.  Someone posted them to the overclockers.com.au forums, I think..

Haha, cool. It's a small world.