JHS BOSS collab

[jimilee]

JHS had a great version of the madbean zero point super deluxe. I wonder if they'll bring it back since Brian discontinued it. I probably shouldn't have called them on it.

[matmosphere]

All I know is that the MI Audio guy has to be mad about this.

Yeah, kinda feel for that guy.


I wasn't around back in the day but I don't know that JHS is doing much different than a lot of boutique companies. I did hear that he tried to convince people he put laborious hours of blood sweat and tears painstakingly perfecting circuits that just ended up being pretty straightforward clones of other stuff. I think that is what rubs people the wrong way. He was pretending he was starting from scratch where in reality he just modded other people's designs.

[lars]

Question:  What happened to the JB-1?
I guess since they teamed up with JHS, it had to be a number 2...
(Maybe this will be a straight flush? Depends how long they can float the idea.)

[Muadzin]

Question:  What happened to the JB-1?
I guess since they teamed up with JHS, it had to be a number 2...

Seems to be a Boss thing, where they try to create the illusion that its part of a longer standing series or something. They didn't always do it, the early pedals started normally with 1, but nowadays almost every new release starts with 2.

[culturejam]

Question:  What happened to the JB-1?

It was codenamed "Crunchbox".

[Rockhorst]

I think it's actually a reference to the BD-2 that the Angry Charlie is paired with.

[WormBoy]

All I know is that the MI Audio guy has to be mad about this.

Why would he? The Crunch Box is just a slightly modified Guv'nor again ...

[culturejam]

Why would he? The Crunch Box is just a slightly modified Guv'nor again ...

And the GuvNor is just a couple op amps in series with diode clipping and a tonestack. Basically a fancy Distotion+. Nothing that already wasn't being done.

[WormBoy]

And the GuvNor is just a couple op amps in series with diode clipping and a tonestack. Basically a fancy Distotion+. Nothing that already wasn't being done.

IMO, the step from Distortion+ to Guv'nor is bigger than from Guv'nor to Crunch Box. But not sure if the Guv'nor wasn't tweaked from another design with two opamp stages and LEDs as hard clippers. In any case, a large part of the commercial pedal world seems to revolve around making minor tweaks followed by substantial marketing hype. They found, and exploit, the guitarist's weak spot  .

[culturejam]

In any case, a large part of the commercial pedal world seems to revolve around making minor tweaks followed by substantial marketing hype. They found, and exploit, the guitarist's weak spot  .

We are generally in agreement here.

My point was that MI looked at the Guv'Nor and said, "How can I take this core sound, simplify the set of controls and tweak it a little to make it more my own, but without losing the basic character of the circuit?" 

JHS looked at the Crunchbox and said: "Hey look, somebody did my R&D for me!"  (allegedly)

[WormBoy]

My point was that MI looked at the Guv'Nor and said, "How can I take this core sound, simplify the set of controls and tweak it a little to make it more my own, but without losing the basic character of the circuit?" 

Looks like MI Audio have changed their mind about simplifcation with the version 2: http://miaudio.com/effects/super-crunch-box-distortion-v-2/  . Not sure if I get your point though; I can't see a real difference between "little tweaking to an existing design" and "letting others do your R&D" ... Might be a difference in degree, but not in kind. Anyways, would be nice if pedal companies would cite their influences, and give credit where credit is due. But capitalism and honesty don't play well together  .

[culturejam]

I see a distinction in this case, but I acknowledge that others may not. When I first started getting into FSB, I saw everything boutique as expensive copies of old stuff (with a few notable exceptions). Then I started ripping things apart myself and analyzing things, and in *some* cases I could see some thought/nuance. And now, my view is that circuit design is actually the easiest part of a commercial pedal operation; design manufacturing, customer support, marketing, vendor relations, cash flow management, bookkeeping, and all that shit is much more challenging and it never goes away. And I think that's why guys who are good at the latter survive and flourish, even if they totally phone it on the former. Having a great original idea alone is not enough.

That's a separate issue from the ethics of cloning, of course. Taking someone else's circuit and using it virtually as-is (mistakes and all, sometimes) without attribution is unscrupulous and unsavory, in my opinion. I'll never be involved in any product that is a direct clone (or close mod) unless that fact is clearly disclosed.

[WormBoy]

And now, my view is that circuit design is actually the easiest part of a commercial pedal operation; design manufacturing, customer support, marketing, vendor relations, cash flow management, bookkeeping, and all that shit is much more challenging and it never goes away. And I think that's why guys who are good at the latter survive and flourish, even if they totally phone it on the former. Having a great original idea alone is not enough.

I think that's hitting the nail on the head. Not that I am saying that circuit design would be easy for me (let alone an original one), but I am running a small business myself (not music-related in any way), and that gives a better appreciation of what it takes to make a living as entrepreneur. If I look at my own pedal building, I am very, very, happy to keep it as a hobby . To run such an operation on a commercial scale, and make a decent living ... it looks like an immense challenge to me.

That's a separate issue from the ethics of cloning, of course. Taking someone else's circuit and using it virtually as-is (mistakes and all, sometimes) without attribution is unscrupulous and unsavory, in my opinion.

I totally agree, although I could also see that there is a temptation to cut corners on that aspect if it's your livelihood that's at stake ... Then again, I cannot see why it would have to be so bad for business to clarify that you took an existing design and improved upon it ... Conclusion must be that guitarists want to buy a dream rather than a tool.

[reddesert]

Seems to be a Boss thing, where they try to create the illusion that its part of a longer standing series or something. They didn't always do it, the early pedals started normally with 1, but nowadays almost every new release starts with 2.

Maybe Boss is being honest and admitting that the first version of everything has already been done.

[playpunk]

JHS had a great version of the madbean zero point super deluxe. I wonder if they'll bring it back since Brian discontinued it. I probably shouldn't have called them on it.

Which one was that? Pink panther?