BYOC Analog Delay

[alanp]

I'd recommend doing a PT2399 project if you want a delay that Just Works. The trick is, which one do you do.

For copping the old tape echo, 1776 Multiplex, no question.

For copping the old DMM delay, it's hard to beat the Dirtbaby.

If you don't like the idea of dealing with more than one trimpot, don't use a BBD.

[lego4040]

I have the 1776 Multiplex and its awesome, I was just reading the dirt baby and the aguaboy pdf's. The Aquaboy looks nice and The Total recal looks scary

[alanp]

The thing is that BBD's are imperfect by nature -- they are anywhere from 128 to 4,096 capacitor sections, with (what I vaguely remember) FETs between them, and when the BBD is clocked, the charge in each capacitor moves "forward" in the line a step. This is all analog, and lossy, with limited bandwidth. As a result, to get the best sound, you need a lot more circuitry before and after a BBD chip, while with a digital delay device (like the PT2399), you're mostly going to get some filtering, and that's about it (apart from input protection.)

The horrible, horrible part of implementing a digital delay is programming the sodding processor, and with the PT2399 that's already handled for us.

[somnif]

Its one reason I really want some competitors to the 2399 to gain traction. Its a lovely chip and fun to play with, but even its shining star circuits have never really been "Great" to me. I don't know if its tendency towards distortion, its murky fade off, or that damned built in modulation, but every pt2399 device I've built has just come across as "meh" to me.

I've been digging the FV-1 for short delay style effects (even if it is 28 pins of SMD hell), but haven't seen many circuits built around it yet (and yeah 20$ a chip vs 1$ is a bit of a change), but we still need a modern champion to supplant the 2399. Something that can be flashed onto chips en masse (preferably with fewer than 20 pins), but with more clarity, fidelity, and control than the Princeton chip. We have things like the 4sec delay of Electric Druid, sure, but thats a 28 pin brain and 2 sticks of ram to support it. There has got to be a simple middle ground to reach for.

I know we're a niche market, but there has to be some engineer out there playing with the idea. Its had 20 years as the reigning champ of cheap and cheerful digital delays, lets not get complacent now.

[lego4040]

The Dirt Baby use the PT2339, The AuqaBoy uses the mn3005 which is $22 a pop  . Now I was reading herehttp://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=15992.0 mn3205 swap instead of the mn3005.

[alanp]

I've built a delay with the PT2395, and it sounds a lot cleaner with more delay time, but the chip is gonzo (40 pin), and needs an external RAM chip.

[lego4040]

Im gonna just box this one back up and use it, it works. Maybe Ill give it to my friends kid who plays in a High school band

[Muadzin]

Analog delays sound great but are a nightmare to build, and have way too short a delay time. PT2399 delays offers a little more time, but its still limited. Even the most fancy DIY delays are relatively simple in what they can do compared to a Boss or TC delay pedal. This is one area where its just not worth the hassle to go DIY and just buy a Boss or TC delay instead. Less hassle, less aggravation, more capabilities. And its not like you even save money by going DIY with delays, which was one of the biggest draws that got me into DIY pedal building, as a DD-7 or Flashback is not that expensive.

[madbean]

Analog delays sound great but are a nightmare to build, and have way too short a delay time. PT2399 delays offers a little more time, but its still limited. Even the most fancy DIY delays are relatively simple in what they can do compared to a Boss or TC delay pedal. This is one area where its just not worth the hassle to go DIY and just buy a Boss or TC delay instead. Less hassle, less aggravation, more capabilities. And its not like you even save money by going DIY with delays, which was one of the biggest draws that got me into DIY pedal building, as a DD-7 or Flashback is not that expensive.

It's the adventure not the destination!

[timbo_93631]

I dunno, I think the delay designs that come up around here have been very useable, enjoyable to build, rewarding to dial in, and almost all have been great sounding.  The whole Zero-Point evolution was amazing not just because forum-invented mods for the ZPDD went into the Deathklaw, but that you could see what Brian was doing to improve it or simplify it along the way and I learned a lot about how the filtering works and what you can do to insert fx loops into the delay line etc.  The culmination of these things makes the ZPDLX a masterpiece really.  The Multiplex with dedicated ramp up/ramp down controls and a dedicated slam control also a legend.  As far as the analogs go the Dirtbag, Aquaboy Deluxe, and original Aquaboy were all rewarding builds, and the Total Recall is everything you could want if you cant live without a big box DMM, but you want something you can gig without fear of it getting damaged.  With the Xvive chips it makes more sense than ever to build one.  But to each his own, honestly.  Delay is just that way, if you find one you can use it will spur along all sorts of creativity and neat new sounds, it doesn't matter if it is commercial or DIY.  I just think it is worth noting that so many great ones have come from this community.

[Muadzin]

It's the adventure not the destination!

Well, they keep saying that, but I reckon there has to be a point to a journey as well. I find DIY delays to be a bitch to build, a bitch to get working, a bitch to troubleshoot, and even if they work they still can do less then my TC Flashback, which I picked up for less then a hundred euro. Your mileage may vary of course but not exactly a fun filled adventure the way I see it.

[madbean]

Well, they keep saying that, but I reckon there has to be a point to a journey as well. I find DIY delays to be a bitch to build, a bitch to get working, a bitch to troubleshoot, and even if they work they still can do less then my TC Flashback, which I picked up for less then a hundred euro. Your mileage may vary of course but not exactly a fun filled adventure the way I see it.

Yes, I actually agree. I had a Timeline which I sold and eventually replaced it with an Alter Ego which I love. That's the delay on my main board. I can get close to some of the TL and AE with DIY but of course never quite the feature-set or versatility of either. Still, I find myself taking out the DIY delay builds quite often and finding uses for them (on records even).

(derail talk)
I tend to look at DIY building more like a craft rather than a means to an end (don't get me wrong - both approaches are completely valid because it's totally up to the individual). There are lots of missteps and small victories in practicing a craft and little by little you refine your abilities. It's a lot like playing guitar; the learning is never done....if you want that way. Sure, you can learn some cool songs and some stank riffs to impress yourself and others. But to really push yourself you have to become a bit of an autodidact. Practicing music as a craft is endless and so is DIY IMO. Zappa said "Music is the best!". madbean says "DIY is pretty, pretty, pretty good!"

[Muadzin]

Yes, I actually agree. I had a Timeline which I sold and eventually replaced it with an Alter Ego which I love. That's the delay on my main board. I can get close to some of the TL and AE with DIY but of course never quite the feature-set or versatility of either. Still, I find myself taking out the DIY delay builds quite often and finding uses for them (on records even).

(derail talk)
I tend to look at DIY building more like a craft rather than a means to an end (don't get me wrong - both approaches are completely valid because it's totally up to the individual). There are lots of missteps and small victories in practicing a craft and little by little you refine your abilities. It's a lot like playing guitar; the learning is never done....if you want that way. Sure, you can learn some cool songs and some stank riffs to impress yourself and others. But to really push yourself you have to become a bit of an autodidact. Practicing music as a craft is endless and so is DIY IMO. Zappa said "Music is the best!". madbean says "DIY is pretty, pretty, pretty good!"

I've always found DIY to be a means to an end, getting a kickass rig, just for a lot less money. Because I never made much money to afford €200+ pedals. Certainly not a boutique overdrive. Or one of those long out of production vintage pedals, like the Lovetone stuff. Along the way it also became fun and addictive. There was a time I built 4 to 6 pedals a month and it consumed most of my spendable income. But for me, the point remained, what kind of pedals do I want or need in my rig? And is it worth it building it myself or not? Just to go DIY for the sake of DIY is just not my thing. Certainly not with the really complicated stuff. There's too many pedals in my failed builds box, including almost every flanger I've tried to build. Why add delays to that pile if A: they're very complicated to build too and B: they don't even do all the things I need?

[culturejam]

Just to go DIY for the sake of DIY is just not my thing.

A witch!!!! Burn him!!!