darkside tone

[bhound]

 My question is more of a statement. The darkside is a pete cornish-ish "g-2" clone and sounds like a big muff, right? I have played the ss-2, g-2 and have owned a p-2. The g2 sounds nothing like a big muff, more like the May Queen Boost from general guitar gadgets, i.m.o. That being said, since the g-2 is a lower gain pedal than the p-2 would not the correct comparison to the darkside actually be the p-2? No disrespect intended. I really like what I am seeing here, and as a matter of sincerity I am Placing an order today.                                       

[stecykmi]

The G2 is almost certainly based off the big muff. If it's not based off the big muff itself, than it is based off something that's based off the big muff. The architecture of of both pedals is very similar, even though many of component values may not be, which is why the pedals don't sound particularly alike.

Both pedals have initial gain stages, followed by two clipping stages followed by a filter stage and followed finally by an output gain stage.

[madbean]

I don't know much about the P2, but I can say that the DS is most definitely the G2. The project comes from a direct trace done on a production unit (not by me). Sonically, I identify it as 'muff-like' but I wouldn't expect it to sound identical to one. Given the two buffers at the top of the circuit, the lower gain and the different style of tone control, it does depart quite a bit.

I've noticed that there is a lot of different opinions on it from those who have built it. A few love it, and a few are disappointed, because I think they are expecting it to sound different. It's hard to say what someone's expectation might be for this one....I think there is an assumption that it has some magic or cleverness to it, but really, it's just a very tweaked distortion. Like all these projects, it might be 'just the right ingredient' for one person, but not another.

[bhound]

Very well stated replies, exactly what I was wanting to hear. I think I am home

[Doc Plus]

The darkside has two problems:
- Volume too low with Ge diodes
- Too Bassy

[wasteofspace]

The darkside has two problems:
- Volume too low with Ge diodes
- Too Bassy

You probably aren't using it loud enough. Seriously.

Then again it may not be the sound that you are looking for. I like it, and we are both entitled to our opinion.

I would suggest that if you're using 1N34As, keep going up the food chain. Socket the diodes and keep going up until you find something you like. You don't even have to use Ge.

Remember that the Darkside's parent was made by Pete Cornish initially for Lou Reed, then David Gilmour and others picked it up. Both of these players belt it out, and the gear is made to suit. I can imagine that Gilmour's combo of DR103s and 212s is going to seriously hurt... Cornish pedals in my experience- and I have used some- are not to be used at low volumes. They are "big rig" pedals. Bedroom and small room players will be disappointed.

With utmost respect to Brian- and I'm sure he will agree- to some extent his layouts are starting points, not end points, for a pedal. There's nothing stopping you modding it to suit your sound.

[madbean]

Couple remedies for what Doc is describing:

For the diodes, a BAT41 might be the right sub. It has a higher forward voltage than either the 1n34a or 1n270. You can always go with 1n914, too. These will sound great in the circuit. Or, you could put two germs in series for one. This will have the effect of adding a very slight octave, too.

Lowering C1 and C5 from 100n and 220n resp. to 22n or 47n will trim bass out at the top of the circuit, and might make all the difference.

[Doc Plus]

I always socketed the diodes, and tred different ones. I loved 1N4148 (more volume and more highs). I will of course try to change the values of input caps.

I think that the G2 works better with Strat.

[wasteofspace]

I think that the G2 works better with Strat.

And Gilmour and Reed use...?     Note to self- never underestimate the interaction of guitar and effect.

Lou Reed was here curating at the Sydney Opera House for the Vivid Festival for several months. I've already spoken with a couple of the engineers I know there, and unfortunately his only performance was Metal Machine Noise, not a "proper" gig. His normal rig didn't come down here with him. It would have been interesting to find out what he was using.

[bhound]

I would absolutly agree with the big rig statement. All of the Cornish pedals are that way, amps half to be to at least 3 to 4 on..... lets say a bandmaster to get a pronounced effect. I think alot of pedals are like this though.