Xvive MN3007 MN3207?

[stecykmi]

ya i think we are all looking forward to the day when we can reliably buy good BBDs at a decent price point. fingers crossed.

[juansolo]

I think the whole thing has proved to me even more that we need to seek alternative methods of getting that sound from a delay...

By 'we', I of course mean people far brighter than me who design delays...

I just build stuff

[Muadzin]

I think the whole thing has proved to me even more that we need to seek alternative methods of getting that sound from a delay...

By 'we', I of course mean people far brighter than me who design delays...

I just build stuff

I hear there's this whole new technology called........ modeling?

[kgull]

I think the whole thing has proved to me even more that we need to seek alternative methods of getting that sound from a delay...

By 'we', I of course mean people far brighter than me who design delays...

I just build stuff

I hear there's this whole new technology called........ modeling?

Modeling?!? Bah humbug!

[stecykmi]

I think the whole thing has proved to me even more that we need to seek alternative methods of getting that sound from a delay...

By 'we', I of course mean people far brighter than me who design delays...

I just build stuff

I hear there's this whole new technology called........ modeling?

Diamond pedals have an interesting delay topology, they use a modern DSP chip with high quality sampling and playback but use analog filters on the repeats for grittiness. i wanted to try this myself but i don't know anything about DSP chips and developer kits are pretty expensive. i think it's certainly in reach of DIY, just not me.

[Muadzin]

Diamond pedals have an interesting delay topology, they use a modern DSP chip with high quality sampling and playback but use analog filters on the repeats for grittiness. i wanted to try this myself but i don't know anything about DSP chips and developer kits are pretty expensive. i think it's certainly in reach of DIY, just not me.

I wonder how much of that is driven by actually sounding better or because of marketing. Because to many musicians digital has become a dirty word while analog is the ne plus ultra. So such a solution is more likely to appeal to the cork sniffers then going full modeling.

Or is it because the boutique pedal builders, most of whom started out like us as DIY solder jockeys, just don't have the know-how and resources of Line6 and Fractal to really make modeling work so they have to come up with analog shortcuts?

[raulduke]

Diamond pedals have an interesting delay topology, they use a modern DSP chip with high quality sampling and playback but use analog filters on the repeats for grittiness. i wanted to try this myself but i don't know anything about DSP chips and developer kits are pretty expensive. i think it's certainly in reach of DIY, just not me.

I wonder how much of that is driven by actually sounding better or because of marketing. Because to many musicians digital has become a dirty word while analog is the ne plus ultra. So such a solution is more likely to appeal to the cork sniffers then going full modeling.

Or is it because the boutique pedal builders, most of whom started out like us as DIY solder jockeys, just don't have the know-how and resources of Line6 and Fractal to really make modeling work so they have to come up with analog shortcuts?

Looking at Diamonds website, their digital delay features variable sample rate for setting the delay time.

I would assume they are also combining this with analogue anti-aliasing filters.

This is in line with how BBD delays are designed.

Varying the sample rate to adjust delay time is part of what gives BBD delays their 'mojo' IMO.

In short... Diamond know their sh*t so I wouldn't dismiss them as solder jockeys just yet. Their pedals sound great and are well designed (I own their boost pedal, and had their compressor for a while).

[Muadzin]

Diamond pedals have an interesting delay topology, they use a modern DSP chip with high quality sampling and playback but use analog filters on the repeats for grittiness. i wanted to try this myself but i don't know anything about DSP chips and developer kits are pretty expensive. i think it's certainly in reach of DIY, just not me.

I wonder how much of that is driven by actually sounding better or because of marketing. Because to many musicians digital has become a dirty word while analog is the ne plus ultra. So such a solution is more likely to appeal to the cork sniffers then going full modeling.

Or is it because the boutique pedal builders, most of whom started out like us as DIY solder jockeys, just don't have the know-how and resources of Line6 and Fractal to really make modeling work so they have to come up with analog shortcuts?

Looking at Diamonds website, their digital delay features variable sample rate for setting the delay time.

I would assume they are also combining this with analogue anti-aliasing filters (as per BBD delay designs).

This is in lieu with how BBD devices work.

Varying the sample rate to adjust delay time is part of what gives BBD delays their 'mojo' IMO.

In short... Diamond know their sh*t so I wouldn't dismiss them as solder jockeys just yet. Their pedals sound great and are well designed (I own their boost pedal, and had their compressor for a while).

I should have added boutique builders in general, as I do agree that Diamond are on the better part of the spectrum. I still think though that combining digital delay with analog filtering is just as much a sign of weakness in the DSP field as it is of strength in the analog field.

[kgull]

Diamond pedals have an interesting delay topology, they use a modern DSP chip with high quality sampling and playback but use analog filters on the repeats for grittiness. i wanted to try this myself but i don't know anything about DSP chips and developer kits are pretty expensive. i think it's certainly in reach of DIY, just not me.

I wonder how much of that is driven by actually sounding better or because of marketing. Because to many musicians digital has become a dirty word while analog is the ne plus ultra. So such a solution is more likely to appeal to the cork sniffers then going full modeling.

Or is it because the boutique pedal builders, most of whom started out like us as DIY solder jockeys, just don't have the know-how and resources of Line6 and Fractal to really make modeling work so they have to come up with analog shortcuts?

Looking at Diamonds website, their digital delay features variable sample rate for setting the delay time.

I would assume they are also combining this with analogue anti-aliasing filters (as per BBD delay designs).

This is in lieu with how BBD devices work.

Varying the sample rate to adjust delay time is part of what gives BBD delays their 'mojo' IMO.

In short... Diamond know their sh*t so I wouldn't dismiss them as solder jockeys just yet. Their pedals sound great and are well designed (I own their boost pedal, and had their compressor for a while).

I should have added boutique builders in general, as I do agree that Diamond are on the better part of the spectrum. I still think though that combining digital delay with analog filtering is just as much a sign of weakness in the DSP field as it is of strength in the analog field.

DSP is an amazing thing and IMO can sound 100% identical to the real thing, even for something really complex like a tube amp or a speaker cabinet. I've got a Line 6 Pod HD Pro and it is a wonderful sounding device but it just sits in my rack and doesn't get touched live.

Nobody can get past the 'weird' feeling playing through it.

That weird feeling is latency, which is inherent to digital devices. It's usually only a few ms, not enough to consciously discern with the human ear, but enough for the brain to go 'wait a minute, something's off here'.

An analog device is basically instantaneous. Since a BBD is supposed to introduce a delay anyway, having an analog signal path and a digital delay path is actually a really good solution IMO, at least for live use.

As to the boutique thing, I agree there are a few out there that are just talking out their ass and hoping for the best, but in general there are some pretty smart dudes/dudettes out there in the audio world.

[raulduke]

I agree that it can do amazing things, and can sound awesome (SoundToy's stuff sounds analogue to my ears).

But I can also see the sense in melding DSP with analogue circuitry that is hard to emulate with DSP (eg. esoteric filters, clipping characteristics of analogue circuitry etc.) it could be a nice mix of both worlds.

On delay design, I've found that injecting a little noise into digital delay lines time modulation can sound really cool and 'analogue-ish'.

I've been mucking around with Reaktor a lot recently, and made a delay that to my ears sounds very much like a BBD delay:

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/9375/

[claytushaywood]

So... ive been out of the loop for quite some time.  just now read the total recall project page and learned about these new mn3005s.  i'm surprised this is the only thread!  still not available for us to purchase or whats goin on?  more importantly how do they sound?  i know the project doc says they work just fine, but i seem to remember bean saying the v3205's were acceptable in one of the old analog delay projects... not saying i dont trust ya.  just want a more scutinizing comparison?  are they really darn close?  (because I dont consider the v3205's to be close at all- though ive never been able to make a direct swap with v3205 for mn3005)

ive been waiting to roll my own big box DMM for years!  Id love to get this underway!