Devi's Hyperion = Ampeg Scrambler clone?

[culturejam]

Just saw that claim made over at TGP:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=19935247#post19935247

I didn't remember this being the case, but I just had a look at both schematics to see for myself. I'm just not seeing it. At all.

Am I just crazy, or are those two circuits pretty much not similar other than both being fuzzes?

[Martan]

Well, they did cite the google...

Based on my limited knowledge of circuits those schematics have a few similarities but some glaring differences.

[micromegas]

if I cannot believe the internet I don't know what to believe anymore...

Some guys at tgp and other forums talk without knowing/thinking.
I always like to know if something I buy it's legit and well built or if it's a rip-off, but I only do it based on photos/schematics/layouts. This whole Devi/JHS/Bill thing in the internet always made me think on a group of monkeys throwing poop at each other (with all the respect).

Based on the schematics I found googling the Hyperion has one less stage and no diode clipping and the differential pair has a different configuration.

[Betty Wont]

The Hyperion was designed by experimentation. It is 2 other Devi Ever circuits in series. We noticed that the Dark Boost and Silver Crank together made a cool muffish fuzz so we combined them into a single pedal, the Hyperion. Some versions of the Hyperion still have a vestigial capacitor from its 2-in-1 origin. Several of our designs from the Devi Ever/E13 archive are the result of combining 2 smaller original circuits in series. The Bit fuzz (Silver Crank and GZ), the Ruiner (Dark Boost and Dark Boost) White Spider (05 and Torn's Peaker) Stone (Dark Boost and Soda Meiser) Assphincter (Soda Meiser and GZ).... There was no cloning, just lazy recycling. 

[culturejam]

^^ Right. That's what I thought.

But even a cursory glance at the Scrambler and the Hyperion schematic show very little in common (within the context of what makes fuzzes different from each other). Thought maybe I was going crazy. Thanks for the ground control. 

[micromegas]

The Hyperion was designed by experimentation. It is 2 other Devi Ever circuits in series. We noticed that the Dark Boost and Silver Crank together made a cool muffish fuzz so we combined them into a single pedal, the Hyperion. Some versions of the Hyperion still have a vestigial capacitor from its 2-in-1 origin. Several of our designs from the Devi Ever/E13 archive are the result of combining 2 smaller original circuits in series. The Bit fuzz (Silver Crank and GZ), the Ruiner (Dark Boost and Dark Boost) White Spider (05 and Torn's Peaker) Stone (Dark Boost and Soda Meiser) Assphincter (Soda Meiser and GZ).... There was no cloning, just lazy recycling.

so you were behind the design of some of Devi's circuits? didn't knew. I once breadboarded a Soda Meiser because a friend wanted a crazy fuzz, is that yours too? I ended building him a BMP but that one was crazy indeed

[Betty Wont]

The Hyperion was designed by experimentation. It is 2 other Devi Ever circuits in series. We noticed that the Dark Boost and Silver Crank together made a cool muffish fuzz so we combined them into a single pedal, the Hyperion. Some versions of the Hyperion still have a vestigial capacitor from its 2-in-1 origin. Several of our designs from the Devi Ever/E13 archive are the result of combining 2 smaller original circuits in series. The Bit fuzz (Silver Crank and GZ), the Ruiner (Dark Boost and Dark Boost) White Spider (05 and Torn's Peaker) Stone (Dark Boost and Soda Meiser) Assphincter (Soda Meiser and GZ).... There was no cloning, just lazy recycling.

so you were behind the design of some of Devi's circuits? didn't knew. I once breadboarded a Soda Meiser because a friend wanted a crazy fuzz, is that yours too? I ended building him a BMP but that one was crazy indeed

Not my design. Thats funny because the soda meiser sounds the most like the scrambler, and the hype the most like a BMP.  Devi already had her greatest hits designed before i was brought on. The Soda Meiser, TP, Dark Boost, 33, disaster fuzz. They are all very simple circuits and i thought we could cram more fun into each box. I pestered Devi enough that i got a bag of parts and schematics and we went adventuring. We found many interesting combinations and that led to several pedals. I built a couple hundred commercial pedals for the company in the 00's. I was involved in the Hype, the Rocket, Shoegazer, the US ( my favorite ), and the mangler pedals with joystick control.

[micromegas]

The Hyperion was designed by experimentation. It is 2 other Devi Ever circuits in series. We noticed that the Dark Boost and Silver Crank together made a cool muffish fuzz so we combined them into a single pedal, the Hyperion. Some versions of the Hyperion still have a vestigial capacitor from its 2-in-1 origin. Several of our designs from the Devi Ever/E13 archive are the result of combining 2 smaller original circuits in series. The Bit fuzz (Silver Crank and GZ), the Ruiner (Dark Boost and Dark Boost) White Spider (05 and Torn's Peaker) Stone (Dark Boost and Soda Meiser) Assphincter (Soda Meiser and GZ).... There was no cloning, just lazy recycling.

so you were behind the design of some of Devi's circuits? didn't knew. I once breadboarded a Soda Meiser because a friend wanted a crazy fuzz, is that yours too? I ended building him a BMP but that one was crazy indeed

Not my design. Thats funny because the soda meiser sounds the most like the scrambler, and the hype the most like a BMP.  Devi already had her greatest hits designed before i was brought on. The Soda Meiser, TP, Dark Boost, 33, disaster fuzz. They are all very simple circuits and i thought we could cram more fun into each box. I pestered Devi enough that i got a bag of parts and schematics and we went adventuring. We found many interesting combinations and that led to several pedals. I built a couple hundred commercial pedals for the company in the 00's. I was involved in the Hype, the Rocket, Shoegazer, the US ( my favorite ), and the mangler pedals with joystick control.

Cool! I'll have to try the US then I just ordered a bunch of 2N222As from Paul and I think I have the extra parts.

[culturejam]

That thread is getting epic. 

[selfdestroyer]

Man that thread at TGP is a vortex of suck. Why do I click on links to there?.. why?

Cody

[Mojo Fandangle]

There was no cloning, just lazy recycling.

Yep, I think that's the best explanation. I just built a Soda Meizer which is the same as the Vintage Fuzz but with the last tranny flipped around. They sound very similar either way. It seems very similar to the Hyperion layout too. From the vero layouts I've seen, most of the Devi stuff seems to use mpsa18's and similar layouts.

[DuctTapeRiot]

The stupid, it burns!!!!  I love that in 16 pages of BS, the OP never manages to spit out what supposedly golden piece of info they got in the magic response from JHS that so radically changed their opinion.

The freaking mental acrobatics to make statements like this, I just don't get it:

It can still be a clone and sound very different...     ... You can change the voicing, etc...and still be a clone.

or

You can build an exact clone of a big muff or Tubescreamer, make a couple of small tweaks and have a different sounding pedal. but it is still a clone as it is the exact same circuit.

Its not the same circuit if you have changed component values, even just one of them, I mean is that not really black and white?? A "circuit" is topology (not the same as layout) + components, end of story no?  If you change one or the other, it is a different circuit.  The change may make no appreciable difference (changing value of DC filter cap for example) but it is still a different "circuit".

[Muadzin]

Now I'm confused. There was design going on with Devi Ever? 

I always thought they randomly threw some parts into the air and soldered them where they landed. After all, its fuzz, its supposed to sound gnarly and evil.

Seriously though, I always liked the simplicity of Devi's pedals. Using only a few standard values for parts, flipping things around, combining circuits. They got a lot out of a few simple circuits and even if they were endless variations on a few themes, cloning the same basic fuzz pedals that most boutiquers seem to be doing, that they weren't.

[Betty Wont]

Now I'm confused. There was design going on with Devi Ever? 

I always thought they randomly threw some parts into the air and soldered them where they landed. After all, its fuzz, its supposed to sound gnarly and evil.

LOL. That's about right. Devi ironically wasn't really interested in the audio aspect of the business. She really is a graphic artist and the endless variations were just a vehicle for her to make more rare pokemons for the fanboys. You can tell by the emphasis on label art and naming conventions versus shitty demos and a counterproductive online presence. Most of the actual circuit emphasis came from others that sought to polish the brand. Manufactured PCBs, losing the electrical tape, less cat hair, snippet combinations, etc....

[Willybomb]

Wow.  I just had a google for "devi ever pedal gutshots" and I have to admit I'm a little disappointed in the apparent build quality for what I consider to be a boutique "brand name"... Apparently things have changed but we see better built stuff here every day.

I'd seen the pedals around in a few second hand shops and the like.  I've never tried them (not a huge fuzz fan) but I couldn't equate the apparent look of it with the reputation.