If anyone wants a mostly neutral take what's going on in Baltimore right now

[midwayfair]

Some background: A guy named Freddie Gray with a long rap sheet was arrested and died in the back of a police van. Although there has been no released report on how he died, there are rumors that he managed to break his own neck by banging his head against the side of the van, in which case he probably wasn't properly restrained. Anyway.

Some high schoolers in NW Baltimore staged a walk out today, with some people apparently itching for a fight; the police showed up in full riot gear with live bullets, tear gas (which is illegal to use in warfare, but not on your own civilians in the U.S.), and pepper spray.

They ordered the kids to disperse ... except that they had shut down public transportation in the area. For some context, all Baltimore high schools are magnet schools, which means most of the students don't live anywhere near their school but bus in; and there are no yellow school busses for high schoolers. So there was literally no way for most of them to get home.

Some rocks were thrown at police cars. The police gassed them and sprayed them with pepper spray. The exact timeline is unclear.

Then the situation continued to escalate. Guns were pointed at protestors. (Remember, they're high schoolers.) More rocks were thrown. A police officer was seriously injured. Twitter gets ugly and, as it is wont to do, incredibly, unbelievably racist. The Police twitter is characteristically tone deaf.

Some cop cars got burned. Then at least one cop van. So far as I can tell, a large part of the property damage is confined to police vehicles, at least for the pictures on my twitter, but I expect a lot of windows will get broken, certainly more than the comparatively minor damage done on Sunday.

Some neighborhood residents are turning out to form a human shield. Some part of the protest is a few blocks away from downtown.

All of this is very far away from where I live. My own little protest is to go downtown, play some music, and hang out with my racially and culturally diverse group of friends at the Teavolve open mic.

From my vantage point, the problems with the Fergusson riots were not learned by the Baltimore Police Department. The police were the ones accused by the public of wrong doing but are still the ones tasked with keeping the peace. It's the fox guarding the henhouse. I am hoping the National Guard gets called in soon so there can be a neutral party watching over the protests. Because right now, Deescalation doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda.

I'm hoping that anyone who threw a rock feels ashamed tomorrow. But I also hope that whoever decided to gas and mace a bunch of high school students also wakes up ashamed of themselves. There's really nothing good to say about any of this today.

That's all.

[bcalla]

From my vantage point, the problems with the Fergusson riots were not learned by the Baltimore Police Department. The police were the ones accused by the public of wrong doing but are still the ones tasked with keeping the peace. It's the fox guarding the henhouse. I am hoping the National Guard gets called in soon so there can be a neutral party watching over the protests. Because right now, Deescalation doesn't seem to be on anyone's agenda.

It amazes me that the individuals who hold the power (the police) seem incapable of understanding what is motivating the protesters in all of these situations.  The police have an extraordinarily difficult job which is only made more difficult by taking a military-like stance.  Protesters generally want accountability which is met by threats of more violence.

I'm hoping that anyone who threw a rock feels ashamed tomorrow. But I also hope that whoever decided to gas and mace a bunch of high school students also wakes up ashamed of themselves. There's really nothing good to say about any of this today.

Then you get protesters who respond with violence.  This is never acceptable (even if you can rationalize / understand the frustration that made someone think this is OK).  The individuals who do this are often responsible for initiating the escalation that leads to others getting hurt.

I hope someone gets smart and figures out how to deescalate.

[Dulouz]

Thanks for this. I've been trying to follow along fairly closely to the situation, but I'm all the way across the country. Good to hear from someone a little closer.

The frustration is understandable. I hope deescalation can happen and peaceful accountability can be reached.

[Shrtyska9]

Personally I can agree with nonviolent protest and feel it is necessary in situations like this. However the moment they go from peaceful to destroying property I can no longer condone those actions.
I am also conflicted by the police tactics used in these situations.
Unfortunately most of the facts in cases like these are shadowed by the cries of racially motivated violence. According to reports Freddie was apprehended unharmed, meaning that while in custody he sustained his fatal injury. Even if the injury was self inflicted the police transporting him were responsible for his safety.
Police are there to protect and serve. They work for the people. Not unlike politicians, there is an increase in the number of police officers who forget  that.


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[Muadzin]

This is one time I'm glad we don't have this problem in the Netherlands. Not that our police force is without problems, far from it, but at least they're more busy hiding in the bushes with speed cameras then doing these kinds of things.

From my vantage point across the pond I do not envy American police officers though. With guns being so widespread anytime they have to approach somebody there is the potential for lethal violence. I can understand why that tends to lead to nervousness and increased police violence.

[Shrtyska9]

This is one time I'm glad we don't have this problem in the Netherlands. Not that our police force is without problems, far from it, but at least they're more busy hiding in the bushes with speed cameras then doing these kinds of things.

From my vantage point across the pond I do not envy American police officers though. With guns being so widespread anytime they have to approach somebody there is the potential for lethal violence. I can understand why that tends to lead to nervousness and increased police violence.

Not sure I would blame guns. They are simply an inanimate object. Plus legal gun owners are extremely small percentage of violent crime in the U.S.. The gun violence you are referring to is a direct result of the war on drugs. The black market created by substance illegality is a predominant part of inner city gang culture and people within that culture have decided that the drug trade is worth killing and dying for.


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[midwayfair]

Some good news: clergy escorted police to calm the riots, the national guard has been activated, and a curfew is in place for a week. We'll see how the last one holds up. In the meantime community leaders have helped regain control.

[HKimball]

I didn't need to act like I understood the situation and further my comment veered into the type of normative political "things Should be like this" conjecture that I so often find distasteful. I'm deleting this when I get to a computer, but for now this will be a place holder.

[midwayfair]

Looting overnight throughout a pretty wide area. Several fires, including a warehouse fire that's currently 7 hours old and still being fought.

Most of downtown is closed. Schools are closed -- which is obviously a *great* idea since a large number of the rioters were students! Let's make sure they're left at home when they're parents go to work! (Not that I want teachers put in a bad position). Public transportation is avoiding the areas where the bulk of the rioting was.

The governor has moved his office and cabinet to Baltimore. Lots of posturing from groups on both sides.

Also lots of people cleaning up their neighborhoods.

[HKimball]

Hey so I feel like I owe an apology for the long and politically charged rant - the only appropriate emotion right now is support for the people of Baltimore. I'm going to go back and delete the message when I get to a real computer.

Wishing you guys all the best - it's a difficult situation and I hope for a good resolution for both sides.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Unfortunately, the peaceful portion of the evolution is over.

We are now on to the "Let's see what we can get for free" portion of the "protests"

I never understood the reasoning behind destroying your own neighborhood in the name of protest. Although... I did read that some of these "protesters" were bussed in from other parts of the country. Although I am sure some of them were there for the peaceful portion.... I would be willing to bet that a lot of them came to town to take advantage of the deep discount pricing.

[midwayfair]

Hey so I feel like I owe an apology for the long and politically charged rant - the only appropriate emotion right now is support for the people of Baltimore. I'm going to go back and delete the message when I get to a real computer.

Wishing you guys all the best - it's a difficult situation and I hope for a good resolution for both sides.

I don't think you needed to delete it. It's okay to say what's on your mind; how else can people learn to understand all aspects of the situation if everyone just stops talking about it? As long as someone's not spreading hate, any discussion is welcome. I'm the only one who promised to provide some neutral information.

For anyone who really wants to stop themselves from feeling cheerful for a while, here's the reddit live thread, which culls information from scanners and elsewhere on the net.

https://www.reddit.com/live/ut948b9s23la

I'm going to have some pancakes now. My office is closed. Maybe I'll write some music.

Greg: You are misinformed about the protesters being "bussed in." A huge portion were juveniles, mostly from two high schools as I mentioned above. Even on Sunday, most of the people arrested for looting were local; only three people arrested were from out of town. (I'll try not to comment, but this is a frequent narrative.)

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Greg: You are misinformed about the protesters being "bussed in." A huge portion were juveniles, mostly from two high schools as I mentioned above. Even on Sunday, most of the people arrested for looting were local; only three people arrested were from out of town. (I'll try not to comment, but this is a frequent narrative.)

So are you saying that none of them came specifically from out of town to participate or have participated in the looting that is going on?

My main point is that it is sad that some have used this as an excuse to destroy their own neighborhoods and loot. Seeing those prescriptions on the street yesterday just made me sad and frustrated for those that now have to go without.

On another note.... how long do you think it will be before the insurance companies of the damaged businesses come after the city of Baltimore for their "let them have room to destroy" ideal? I would be willing to guarantee they at least bring the matter up legally to seek compensation for the payouts.

[pickdropper]

Hey so I feel like I owe an apology for the long and politically charged rant - the only appropriate emotion right now is support for the people of Baltimore. I'm going to go back and delete the message when I get to a real computer.

Wishing you guys all the best - it's a difficult situation and I hope for a good resolution for both sides.

I don't think you needed to delete it. It's okay to say what's on your mind; how else can people learn to understand all aspects of the situation if everyone just stops talking about it? As long as someone's not spreading hate, any discussion is welcome. I'm the only one who promised to provide some neutral information.

I agree.  Your post did have some opinions, but I don't remember thinking they were inflammatory in any way.

At some point, discussion is going to have to happen so that we can reason out why things like this happen and what we can do to avoid it in the future.  As long as there is a growing chasm of distrust between the police and the citizens they are bound to protect, this is not going to get better.

[Luke51411]

Thanks Jon for your info and updates on the situation. Its so frustrating to me that either major side of any issue sticks so much to pushing their narrative that what gets lost so often is that most issues are so much more complicated than what they may seem at superficial glance or watching mainstream media on the issue. I think our culture has become so "Us against them" no matter the issue to the point that we all become villains.