Epoxy "Envirotex" lifting problems

[Justus]

Okay Paul, after hearing your glowing review of ET over powder coat (and my problems with my waterslide decal ink diffusing into the clear powder coat), you may have just convinced me to give ET a try as a finishing step.  Seems it would allow me to powder, clear, then decal, and ET on top for beautiful and more predictable results.  If it works as you say, then at least all the dormant/clear powder I bought won't be for naught, lol!

Where's the best/cheapest place to get it in the States?

[davent]

Has anyone come up with a method for getting equally fabulous side coating of the enclosure with the Envirotex?
dave

[TNblueshawk]

Okay Paul, after hearing your glowing review of ET over powder coat (and my problems with my waterslide decal ink diffusing into the clear powder coat), you may have just convinced me to give ET a try as a finishing step.  Seems it would allow me to powder, clear, then decal, and ET on top for beautiful and more predictable results.  If it works as you say, then at least all the dormant/clear powder I bought won't be for naught, lol!

Where's the best/cheapest place to get it in the States?

Home Depot, Park's glaze in the paint section. Usually high in the shelf near the urethanes. Also, if you have a Michael's, if you print off the 40% coupon and bring it in it will bring the price down to what HD sells it for but there it is the Envirotex brand. That is the cheapest I've found. Now if you are going for some kind of gallon size then you'd have to scour the interwebz.

[TNblueshawk]

Has anyone come up with a method for getting equally fabulous side coating of the enclosure with the Envirotex?
dave

Weeeelllllll...... I don't think it is possible due to gravity. It will always be thinner. Sometimes I get those lines and other times not so much. A buddy of mine once told me why don't I work something up to where I dip it and hang it. It might be worth a shot I just never did it because you still would have to get it level after dipping or it would run off the top and leave a bare edge mostly. Still it will drip off the sides more than the top.

I did solve the jack holes 'cupping' by placing blue painters tape over the hole. I would cut the round tape pieces out just enough to barely grab the round hole of the enclosure so the epoxy just pours over it like it is solid. What blemish is left as I punch out the taped hole is covered by the jack hardware. The 9v doesn't leave you much margin for error though. The in/out jacks no problem.

[juansolo]

Nope, always goes on too thin and looks more yellow than the top for some reason over time. Plus it wastes it. The decal is all that really needs protecting on our builds. It's either bare metal or powder which is durable enough on it's own.

[pickdropper]

So, what I want to say is, that the thickness of the film should not matter as much as the reaction is between the two components and not with air like others (silicone for example). It is more important to get the correct ration of the two components to get it the way you wanted.

That's a really good post with a lot of good info, Felix.  With most epoxies, mix ratio is most important (although some are more sensitive than others).  It's also important to make sure the resin and the catalyst are well mixed or it may never properly cure.

While not as important, the thickness of the epoxy can theoretically make a difference.  Since epoxy curing is an exothermic reaction, thicker mixtures trap more heat in the center of the epoxy, causing the reaction to happen faster.  That's more of an academic point when applying a thin or slightly less thin sheet of epoxy on an enclosure, but if you ever pot something with epoxy you might notice a difference.


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[TNblueshawk]

So, what I want to say is, that the thickness of the film should not matter as much as the reaction is between the two components and not with air like others (silicone for example). It is more important to get the correct ration of the two components to get it the way you wanted.

That's a really good post with a lot of good info, Felix.  With most epoxies, mix ratio is most important (although some are more sensitive than others).  It's also important to make sure the resin and the catalyst are well mixed or it may never properly cure.

While not as important, the thickness of the epoxy can theoretically make a difference.  Since epoxy curing is an exothermic reaction, thicker mixtures trap more heat in the center of the epoxy, causing the reaction to happen faster.  That's more of an academic point when applying a thin or slightly less thin sheet of epoxy on an enclosure, but if you ever pot something with epoxy you might notice a difference.


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To further this I did mess up not mixing it enough. I was attempting to keep the bubbles down by not stirring vigorously and what I ended up doing is not mixing it well enough. The outcome was that I ended up with tacky spots here and there after it dried. Even 3 years later I have a pedal where if I touch it there is just a slight tackiness and dullness to a few spots.

From there on out I was like a Tasmanian Devil when mixing. I figured I'd worry about the bubbles after the pour.

[chromesphere]

Okay Paul, after hearing your glowing review of ET over powder coat (and my problems with my waterslide decal ink diffusing into the clear powder coat), you may have just convinced me to give ET a try as a finishing step.  Seems it would allow me to powder, clear, then decal, and ET on top for beautiful and more predictable results.  If it works as you say, then at least all the dormant/clear powder I bought won't be for naught, lol!

Where's the best/cheapest place to get it in the States?

Hopefully you have better luck with ET Steve!  So far im very impressed with epoxy.  I'm also liking the options it opens up.  You can stick down objects on the front of the enclosure (was thinking of an Ace playing card for example).  The text in my first post in this thread was drawn on with posca pens (waterbased paint pens).  And the glossy look is second to none!  Im quite happy to go to the extra step of epoxying for this look.

From there on out I was like a Tasmanian Devil when mixing. I figured I'd worry about the bubbles after the pour.

Get this right...I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS...I know.  Im sorry, wont happen again.  When I read "stir vigorously for 2 mins" I figured they weren't messing around with that particular direction so I took it quite literally and stirred the living sh!t out of it.  The bubbles are easy enough to get rid of (with the propane cigarette lighter), now ive read what happens when you don't do it this way I will continue on this path.

[pickdropper]

You don't need to mix really hard in a way that creates bubbles (I never do that).  You just need to make sure it's mixed thoroughly.  Two minutes of steady mixing works fine for me.

Now I just need to buy a vacuum chamber to evacuate the bubbles before pouring.  :-)


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[chromesphere]

I had a HEAP of tiny bubbles when I pored.  The mixture looked cloudy there was so many bubbles, but the final finish shows zero.  Their pretty easy to get rid of but ill do what you recommend Dave and stir longer / steadier.

[jimilee]

I had a HEAP of tiny bubbles when I pored.  The mixture looked cloudy there was so many bubbles, but the final finish shows zero.  Their pretty easy to get rid of but ill do what you recommend Dave and stir longer / steadier.

juan's video is worth it's weight in gold. That's what I used to cut my teeth.


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[billstein]

Also it really helps as Juan discovered to heat the epoxy up. I float both the bottles in really hot water for a couple minutes. Measure it out with a digital scale, pour it on and spread it out with a chopstick. I get the chopsticks at the dollar store. I think you get 50 pairs for a buck.
I haven't done a ton of these things, probably 20 or so and the only problem I had was with the first one. I tried to spread it around after it was starting to set a bit and it left divots. I try to keep everything from the end of mixing to the pour and spreading within about 5 minutes.

Again, like others have said Juan and Cleggy's tutorial is golden.

[chromesphere]

Again, like others have said Juan and Cleggy's tutorial is golden.

Is this the tutorial?   Link seems to be broken.  http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/envirotex.html

[chromesphere]

One other thing I was just thinking of, epoxy now makes these sticker letters ive been using a durable option.  Admittedly I don't recall ever even losing a single sticker, with epoxy would be 100% durable AND look even better.  Depends on the height of the sticker but I think could be about 1mm high. I guess even if the epoxy didn't build up to the same height as the sticker it would still look cool as the layer would still cover the peaks of the sticker, so it would create an embossed look I would guess.

(These: http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=24)

Have to try it on my next pedal!!  So many new options

[TNblueshawk]

Dave is right too. I probably go overboard since I screwed the pooch a couple times on mixing and it was one of those things where you say this will never happen again to me! I'll make every other mistake but not this one again.

I used to blow on those bubbles but stopped because I was either spitting on my pedal or what I found is I was taking deep breaths to blow and while these fumes are not bad, compared to lacquer for example, I still didn't want to inhale it like that. But yeah, I use the old propane torch. Another mistake I made with that is if you lay on it too long you can sort of 'burn' the epoxy in a sense meaning you can give it a premature wrinkle of sort where the skin is dried before the underneath. So I have a pedal or two where I know where that is at but you almost can't tell probably due to the decal design, knobs etc... Man, I've made every mistake I think you can with this stuff 

For what it's worth, what I mix this stuff in are those plastic cups, the ones that you might normally see in red and blue at parties kind of thing. They usually come in a big tube of cups, 24 or so, or maybe a double tube if you go to Sam's etc... Anyway, I only buy the ones that have ribbed lines which seem to usually be in some off color. I have a tube of light green ones right now with the ribs. Most are smooth inside and it is hard to tell if you are 50/50 on your mix. I line up 2 cups and use these lines so I know what to pour up to evenly that way my 50/50 mix doesn't get off. Then I pitch the cups. They are cheap.

Paul, it sounds like you are getting some great ideas. I had always thought about plopping some things down but I was always putting a decal on I didn't want to cover up so I never go around to it. I always thought a steampunk kind of thing would be cool where you add some cool items.