3pdt stomps - I'm done! alternatives - opto or relay bypass?

[selfdestroyer]

What I want in a build is essentially the first pic below. That's my generic bottom end on all builds. It goes in, gets tested, then it's just 4 wires and it's done. No hassle, super short wiring and utterly solid.

That's not to say it couldn't be improved My wishlist for Optotron 2 (winking at Josh here...). Is pic two. Couple of changes here. I'd want the I and O for the board separated. Just to keep them as far apart as possible. I'd want the top and central LED as it's way more useful there, and power on both sides of the board as it'd make any multi's neater. That to me would be the perfect DIY switch board. Well, it's my perfect DIY switch board anyhow

like this?

Haha awesome.

Cody

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I was under the impression that even the opto bypass option still has the KER-CHUNK of the DPDT switch. I thought the whole point was to get rid of the KER-CHUNK!

Am I wrong here? The relay bypass utilizes a soft touch momentary so there is no switch click at all.

[jubal81]

I was under the impression that even the opto bypass option still has the KER-CHUNK of the DPDT switch. I thought the whole point was to get rid of the KER-CHUNK!

Am I wrong here? The relay bypass utilizes a soft touch momentary so there is no switch click at all.

I've never used a relay system that was as quiet as a mechanical switch. Some have a big pop. Some have a small pop. Some have a hiccup while it mutes. Not to mention, it costs a lot more.


Also, the Alpha DPDTs have more of a CLick than a KER-Chunk. Feels much nicer, and I kind of like that tactile feedback now. I think where it comes out ahead of a 3PDT is in feel and reliability.

[juansolo]

What I want in a build is essentially the first pic below. That's my generic bottom end on all builds. It goes in, gets tested, then it's just 4 wires and it's done. No hassle, super short wiring and utterly solid.

That's not to say it couldn't be improved My wishlist for Optotron 2 (winking at Josh here...). Is pic two. Couple of changes here. I'd want the I and O for the board separated. Just to keep them as far apart as possible. I'd want the top and central LED as it's way more useful there, and power on both sides of the board as it'd make any multi's neater. That to me would be the perfect DIY switch board. Well, it's my perfect DIY switch board anyhow

like this?

Haha awesome.

Cody

That is indeed, most awesome. Shame I have another 40 opto's to get through before the next order

[davent]

I was under the impression that even the opto bypass option still has the KER-CHUNK of the DPDT switch. I thought the whole point was to get rid of the KER-CHUNK!

Am I wrong here? The relay bypass utilizes a soft touch momentary so there is no switch click at all.

I think that depends on the particular setup, the mictester uses a latched switch to operate the relay so you'd still get the mechanical slam of that switch. With some additional circuitry to create a electronic latch you could use a soft touch momentary to actuate the relay. And there is a very very quiet mechanical click of the relay as it switches.

[juansolo]

You still have the mechanical switch, as that's what's doing the switching still. But they don't pop as a rule and the Alphas have a really nice clicky action to them.

[micromegas]

I am always wondering why not more people in the DYI realms use the BOSS/Ibanez style bypass.

I assume that provided you use good buffers (op amps for example, instead of transistors they often use) it should be a rock solid switching scheme? (and cheaper than most other alternatives) Or has it to do with bouncing switches or something else? I will surely find out why as soon as I start digging into it  (which I was intending as soon as I find some time)

People leaned towards true bypass and having only wire between pedals because using an array of buffers can sometimes mess with things (fuzzes, wahs, bad designs... ). If you look at some meditated pedalboards the builder usually combine both methods: true bypass for the whole chain but buffered in/out.
However, I've seen the boss scheme adapted to modern times in some places (mictester @FSB or fuzzo @smokingtip.wordpress use variations in their designs).

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I thought the purpose of the Momentary stomp + relay setup was to duplicate the discreet-based switching like you find in a BOSS-type pedal except it is true bypass.

The switching I am referring to is the Finish Line. Isn't that a click-less true bypass relay system?

[jubal81]

I thought the purpose of the Momentary stomp + relay setup was to duplicate the discreet-based switching like you find in a BOSS-type pedal except it is true bypass.

The switching I am referring to is the Finish Line. Isn't that a click-less true bypass relay system?

Yeah, it uses a momentary switch.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Yeah, it uses a momentary switch.

Yes. This was what I was referring to. The optical bypass system still uses the "clicking" DPDT switches so there is still the sound present just like the 3PDTs.

So what is the benefit of scrapping the 3PDTs and going with the opto bypass if you still get the click?

[jubal81]

Yeah, it uses a momentary switch.

Yes. This was what I was referring to. The optical bypass system still uses the "clicking" DPDT switches so there is still the sound present just like the 3PDTs.

So what is the benefit of scrapping the 3PDTs and going with the opto bypass if you still get the click?

They're more reliable. And it's a much nicer click.

[GrindCustoms]

I thought the purpose of the Momentary stomp + relay setup was to duplicate the discreet-based switching like you find in a BOSS-type pedal except it is true bypass.

The switching I am referring to is the Finish Line. Isn't that a click-less true bypass relay system?

The idea behind going with an alternative to the 3PDT is simply reliability on the long term run.

From a mechanical aspect, the actuation of a momentary switch involve a lot less than a latching 3DPT, much less components in the SPST, etc... the conductive material on the internal flip-flops of a 3PDT where out, bends... depending of how foot heavy is the user...thus creating bad contact, resulting in POPs, signal shorting, etc.

[micromegas]

Yeah, it uses a momentary switch.

Yes. This was what I was referring to. The optical bypass system still uses the "clicking" DPDT switches so there is still the sound present just like the 3PDTs.

So what is the benefit of scrapping the 3PDTs and going with the opto bypass if you still get the click?

They're more reliable. And it's a much nicer click.

Nicer in both feeling & sound. If you play rock venues maybe the click doesn't bother you, but when playing with a singer in duo/trio, those are noticeable and kill the mood.
For me it is optotron or clickless (and I haven't had any pop issues with the optotron).

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Never played much more than living room entertainment however, the general consensus is that the click from a 3PDT is loud enough to be heard on stage?

I know they click but.... not that loud.

[micromegas]

Never played much more than living room entertainment however, the general consensus is that the click from a 3PDT is loud enough to be hear on stage?

I know they click but.... not that loud.

not in stage, but more like in a pub situation