3pdt stomps - I'm done! alternatives - opto or relay bypass?

[midwayfair]

I've been using the Alpha 3PDTs recently, and they seem to be the most solidly built. Their DPDTs are way better though if you want a true bypass option like the optotron or millennium.

The most reliable switching is something active and as little actuation of switches as possible. Mechanical parts are just more likely to go bad in the long run. Buffered bypass like the Boss pedals is one of the best ways you can possibly do it: It doesn't pop, and with a good (Carling?) switch, it should last as long as a transistor can last. Next most reliable is probably a relay, though they have their own issues. After that, you can use a Carling DPDT, which costs a good $10, and one of the active true bypass schemes and your children will probably be the ones on hook for the warranty. But it's a lot cheaper to just use the Alpha ones, and they're pretty nice on their own

[juansolo]

People want 3PDT as this is what we have all been lead to believe is bestest for toanz.

I've successfully managed to convert most people I come across to optical and will argue till the cows come home every advantage they have over 3PDT. I hate them with a passion. To me, seeing one in any pedal, particularly commercial is a complete turn off. Just makes me think 'cheap and shite'.

Getting pedals back, for whatever reason reflects badly on my build. I never want my pedals to fail for any reason other than abuse or extreme age. They will see it as a lack of robustness on the build, rather than just another failed stomp. It's worth the extra cost for that alone.

[culturejam]

Obviously, Dave, Brian, and I like relay-based switching. The problem with relay systems is that they are not cost-effective as one-off purchases. We have put some effort into trying to figure out how to roll out the FFX switching system to the community at large, and it always comes back to volume to make cost reasonable.

For DIY and short-run work, my vote is for optical. It makes the most sense in terms of performance and cost.

[DaWebMasta]

I never see it mentioned, so maybe people aren't aware(?), but Carling has started making 3pdt switches now. Maybe not 'cost effective' (they cost like 13 bucks apiece at Mouser in single quantity), but the topic is clearly about reliability, not cost ....

Just my $ .02, YMMV, etc.

[drolo]

I am always wondering why not more people in the DYI realms use the BOSS/Ibanez style bypass.

I assume that provided you use good buffers (op amps for example, instead of transistors they often use) it should be a rock solid switching scheme? (and cheaper than most other alternatives) Or has it to do with bouncing switches or something else? I will surely find out why as soon as I start digging into it  (which I was intending as soon as I find some time)

[jubal81]

I am always wondering why not more people in the DYI realms use the BOSS/Ibanez style bypass.

I assume that provided you use good buffers (op amps for example, instead of transistors they often use) it should be a rock solid switching scheme? (and cheaper than most other alternatives) Or has it to do with bouncing switches or something else? I will surely find out why as soon as I start digging into it  (which I was intending as soon as I find some time)

I've look at that recently and what put me off is the circuit would be quite substantial in size and it seems more trouble than it's worth just to be able to use a momentary switch.


I've personally not had trouble with 3PDTs, but I do love the feel of the Alpha DPDT. The optical system looks pretty hard to beat when considering cost/reliability/quiet performance.

[Leevibe]

It's funny. When I've asked friends/customers what they would like to see in pedals, I've consistently heard them ask for "those quiet soft kind of switches, like they have on the TC Nova pedals." I've considered moving away from 3PDTs, but If I do, I will probably go straight to soft-touch relay bypass. I really like the solid positive-but-soft actuation of the Carling momentary SPST. They are so expensive but I would probably pay the price for that level of quality. Especially if I am already spending the money on a relay and micro controller. Until then, it's the Alpha 3PDT for me. I have every reason to believe they are the equal in quality to their 2PDT. They do take more effort to actuate, take up more internal space, and make a louder click. I'm done with ol' blue forever. It's Alpha Black for 3PDTs.

[davent]

MicTester's relay switching at freestompboxes? Haven't tried it yet but have the bits to put it into action... someday.

http://freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13295&sid=c2fca9e125b3bfe22cfc9cf153b18219

[Frank_NH]

Hmmm...I haven't had any 3PDT switches fail on me yet, but then I only build for myself.  I use the Pro series switches from Mammoth (the aqua colored ones).

Having said that, I would love to try a relay-based switch for effects that get turned on and off all the time, mainly boosters/overdrives.  For example, when I play live, most overdrives and distortions are activated once per song (or set of songs).  However a booster (or perhaps a favorite overdrive) may be turned on and off for leads.  Those are the effects that would benefit from the relay-based switching.

[raulduke]

It's funny. When I've asked friends/customers what they would like to see in pedals, I've consistently heard them ask for "those quiet soft kind of switches, like they have on the TC Nova pedals." I've considered moving away from 3PDTs, but If I do, I will probably go straight to soft-touch relay bypass. I really like the solid positive-but-soft actuation of the Carling momentary SPST. They are so expensive but I would probably pay the price for that level of quality. Especially if I am already spending the money on a relay and micro controller. Until then, it's the Alpha 3PDT for me. I have every reason to believe they are the equal in quality to their 2PDT. They do take more effort to actuate, take up more internal space, and make a louder click. I'm done with ol' blue forever. It's Alpha Black for 3PDTs.

Do you guys use Mouser as your source for the Alpha 3PDT's?

[juansolo]

What I want in a build is essentially the first pic below. That's my generic bottom end on all builds. It goes in, gets tested, then it's just 4 wires and it's done. No hassle, super short wiring and utterly solid.

That's not to say it couldn't be improved My wishlist for Optotron 2 (winking at Josh here...). Is pic two. Couple of changes here. I'd want the I and O for the board separated. Just to keep them as far apart as possible. I'd want the top and central LED as it's way more useful there, and power on both sides of the board as it'd make any multi's neater. That to me would be the perfect DIY switch board. Well, it's my perfect DIY switch board anyhow

[Leevibe]

What I want in a build is essentially the first pic below. That's my generic bottom end on all builds. It goes in, gets tested, then it's just 4 wires and it's done. No hassle, super short wiring and utterly solid.

That's not to say it couldn't be improved My wishlist for Optotron 2 (winking at Josh here...). Is pic two. Couple of changes here. I'd want the I and O for the board separated. Just to keep them as far apart as possible. I'd want the top and central LED as it's way more useful there, and power on both sides of the board as it'd make any multi's neater. That to me would be the perfect DIY switch board. Well, it's my perfect DIY switch board anyhow

that second one does look pretty sweet and very practical

Do you guys use Mouser as your source for the Alpha 3PDT's?

They're $3.50 at PPP. Unbeatable. I live in the US though. I doubt that works out well for you.

[raulduke]

Do you guys use Mouser as your source for the Alpha 3PDT's?

They're $3.50 at PPP. Unbeatable. I live in the US though. I doubt that works out well for you.

Thanks for the heads up. Yeah PPP is expensive shipping wise to EU.

I can get a pretty good price at Mouser if I go in for 100. Might be worth a splurge. They'd certainly last me a while 

[Frank_NH]

What I want in a build is essentially the first pic below. That's my generic bottom end on all builds. It goes in, gets tested, then it's just 4 wires and it's done. No hassle, super short wiring and utterly solid.

That's not to say it couldn't be improved My wishlist for Optotron 2 (winking at Josh here...). Is pic two. Couple of changes here. I'd want the I and O for the board separated. Just to keep them as far apart as possible. I'd want the top and central LED as it's way more useful there, and power on both sides of the board as it'd make any multi's neater. That to me would be the perfect DIY switch board. Well, it's my perfect DIY switch board anyhow

Very nice!  I like modular systems and will have to try this out.   

[m-Kresol]

What I want in a build is essentially the first pic below. That's my generic bottom end on all builds. It goes in, gets tested, then it's just 4 wires and it's done. No hassle, super short wiring and utterly solid.

That's not to say it couldn't be improved My wishlist for Optotron 2 (winking at Josh here...). Is pic two. Couple of changes here. I'd want the I and O for the board separated. Just to keep them as far apart as possible. I'd want the top and central LED as it's way more useful there, and power on both sides of the board as it'd make any multi's neater. That to me would be the perfect DIY switch board. Well, it's my perfect DIY switch board anyhow

like this?