Is there a limit for comedy?

[micromegas]

I don't think so, but this article is really interesting (keep in mind this is from 2011).
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2011/feb/05/top-gear-offensive-steve-coogan

I know there are plenty Top Gear fans here, but the guy has a point, and his writing is flawless. I've always supported the idea that you cannot censor any kind of humor and that you can laugh at everything, and I still do.
This article is worth five minutes of your time.

I dig many kinds of humor, even the offensive one, the black one, or the bad one (I dig that last one a lot).
But there's always a context. Or not? I've been thinking about it lately and haven't reached any conclusion.
Maybe some of you have meditated about it and can show some strong opinions on this topic.

[AntKnee]

I always thought Jeremy was a dork that tried too hard. I watched that show to see Tif, who could actually drive, and offer something worthwhile about the cars.

[dont-tase-me-bro]

It boggles my mind that stand ups get shit for things they say in comedy clubs.  Not everyone works it like Seinfeld. 

Patrice O'Neill is one of my favorite comedians of all time, but probably offended a large percentage of people

[juansolo]

From the original question yes and no...

Certain types of comedy age badly. Obviously anything that's based on current events. But also things that could be labeled offensive. Eventually that becomes crass and unfunny.

That said other's that have aged. I was gutted to watch Sleeper recently, a film I loved as a kid and just not find it funny at all. Terrified me that I'd not find Mel Brooks funny any more also (fond memories of Blazing Saddles and History of the World).

That said, some humour just endures. Airplane, despite being based on 80's disaster movies, still is damned funny. Life of Brian may well go down in history as the greatest funny film of all time it's so perfect.

Anyhow, Top Gear. There humour is 'laddish' humour with added Last of the Summer Wine shenanigans because, quite frankly, they're old blokes dicking around most of the time. Which is what groups of old blokes do. It's occasionally amusing, like that sort of thing is. But it's repetitive and a bit tiring at times. I've watched one episode of this season and it was enough for me to realise I was right in stopping watching it.

This iteration of Top Gear was good a couple of years in when May had just joined and they'd got the formula about right. It was still only watched by a handful of people and there were about 20 people in the studio. As they knew very few people watched it and those that did were into cars the articles were more interesting to car nuts and the humour was much more spontaneous. As was the cocking around. It was much less scripted.

It was a victim of it's own success as it started to appeal to more and more people and they weren't necessarily interested in cars. I stand by that they should have called it a day with the Aston Martin - death of the supercar article they did. They were at their peak and had just started to recycle. The signs were there enough for me to say, it'd done now, let's move on.

But it had become a cash cow, and rather than let things die a natural death, they need to be milked, and milked until there's nothing left but three fat old men doing the same thing week in week out and it's edge comes from who they can offend this week. It's not that the humour has become stale, this whole iteration of Top Gear has.

As for Clarkson. Whatever. He won't give a flying fuck. He can wipe his tears on his millions. He's a writer, journalist and can make bloody good war documentaries when he puts his mind to it. May is another writer, journalist and makes excellent science/toy programmes outside Top Gear. Hammond can continue to do commentary on Total Wipeout... Not to mention that they'll Have Sky, ITV, CH4, Dave, etc queuing up for them to do Sixth Gear, or whatever. Let's not forget that TG makes the BBC MEEEEEEELIONS of pounds as it's sold all around the world. It would be very easy for the three of them to continue to milk the shit out of it on another channel and be a guaranteed success.

Who loses is the BBC, quite simply. It's just about their top paying show. Regardless of what I think about it, there are so many more people that can't get enough.

Indeed I can see there being a backlash when it comes to the license fee if they drop Top Gear. We've already lost F1, there's not a lot of reason left to have a license these days unless you particularly like endless reality TV shit.

[raulduke]

Yep Coogan's the man 

My problem with TopGear is that I don't even find it remotely funny. It's also a bit worrying if TopGear is our worldwide representation of the output from the BBC.

Clarkson's days may well be done with TopGear. Like Juan says, I don't think he'll be crying into his pint of lager about it. He'll get offers from all over.

Maybe let Clarkson's mini-doppelganger go at the same time too... bring in some new presenters to modernize the show.


Guy Martin as new presenter is a rumour doing the rounds (wishful thinking no doubt).

That guy is a PROPER dude... and would freshen the show up no end. Would stop it being the televised midlife crisis it is.

Russell Brand, although incredibly annoying and up his own arse at times, has also made some interesting (and bang on IMO) points:

[juansolo]

Guy Martin is to engineering what Fred Dibnah used to be. Love the bloke and what he does, but he's not a motoring journalist, which is what a programme like TG needs. Or at least used to need. It used to need someone who could articulate in an interesting manner what cars are like. Both May and Clarkson used to do this which is why they're good at it. Hammond irritates me most because he's the DJ that's trying to be Clarkson. He's the bullies suck up as Coogan puts it. The actual car review side of things seems to have disappeared.

Also I dislike Brand intensely. He's outspoken sure, he's also an insensitive dick head. After all who phones up an old man and mocks him publicly on TV after banging his daughter. I cannot think of anything Clarkson may have done in the past that's more offensive that that, and downright nasty in the name of humour. That and he's very London-centric. Let's abandon the car. Yes that's a great idea if you live in the capitol where the car is actually a nuisance. Bit of a problem if you live anywhere else where the public transport system simply doesn't work.

That doesn't for one second mean I'm defending Clarkson. He's just as much of a knob at times. But if I had to choose, I'd choose May... Sorry I mean Clarkson.

[midwayfair]

All worthwhile humor involves the audience. The joke teller shares in the joke with the audience. You can't do that if you're making a joke that makes fun of someone's culture or relies on stereotypes, because then you exclude people from the joke if they don't share your stereotyping.

Offending people is a cheap laugh; it's not durable and it will not even make everyone laugh at the time the joke is made. Racist jokes are pretty much the worst.

Spoof and satire make fun of something but endure when done properly because they are born out of a love of the subject. (Spoof, especially, requires that you actually love the genre you're spoofing, because how else do you know what's really a fault and what's just camp/quirk?)

Satire requires a lot of anger to do properly but you can't get angry if you don't have something to fight for, and good satire requires the moral high ground, I'd go so far as to say "in a Kantian sense." It has to hit at something that can be universally understood as A Good Thing. The article hit on that some.

What's left? Absurdity, slapstick, etc.

So yes, I absolutely believe that there's a limit to comedy. But more importantly, there's such a thing as decency and respect for your fellow human beings.

But these are really two different things. There is "Should someone not say something?" and then there is "Should people in general be discouraged from expressing themselves as they see fit?" The first is a matter of personal wisdom, which everyone lacks from time to time. The second is a social matter and personally I think that the answer is "probably no," as long as they're willing to bear the consequences and as long as they aren't harming others.

This is my favorite thing from the article:

Part of the blame must lie with what some like to call the "postmodern" reaction to overzealous political correctness. Sometimes, it's true, things need a shakeup; orthodoxies need to be challenged.

Some people believe that they should be able to spout off whatever offensive nonsense you want, and that anyone who chastises them is just being politically correct and That's Bad. It's a tautological argument in the first place ("Doing what I want is right and anyone who tells me I shouldn't is wrong"). If you read up a little on the history of the term "politically correct" and its usage, it's no surprise that it turns out to be a dog whistle.

[AntKnee]

This reminds me an episode of The Simpsons where Krusty the Clown is failing and during a painfully bad bit, he does a very stereotypical impression of an asian person, much to the disgust of the audience.
As was mentioned, I think some jokes expire, some are timeless. There will always be someone willing to "go there", wherever it is, and there will always be someone saying "Oh no you didn't". Does comedy have limits? Yes, but the limit will vary depending on the audience or individual.
I had no idea that TG was even remotely that popular. We have an American version as well as the UK version. I watch for the cars, not the humor. So as it evolved, I lost interest in the UK version and gravitated to the US version. I has some humor, mostly in the form of the 3 constantly pranking each other, but in the end, is a show about cars.

[Muadzin]

I don't think there is any limit to comedy other then hurting other people physically or psychologically against their will. Does that mean there will be an awful lot of bad comedy because of it? Hell yeah. As I get older I notice that a lot of new comedy is completely not funny to me. I keep on enjoying what I used to enjoy, but new stuff is becoming more and more a hit and miss. Guess I'm finally becoming an old fart. Should I start huffing and puffing about like some sad politically correct flame warrior? No. Because the right of free speech should take precedence over people's insensibilities. If you don't like something, just change the channel and watch something else instead. It's what I do.

As for Top Gear, I fecking LOVE it! I don't give $0.02 about the cars they're reviewing as cars other then a means to haul my gear around do not interest me one bit. But I love their laddish humor and especially Clarkson's political incorrectness. The more it pisses off the politically correct classes, the better! Has it become stale? Kinda. Theirs only so much you can do with their format that they haven't already done, but as long as its still three guys visibly enjoying themselves and still funny to watch, who cares? South Park has also gone stale in that regard, Family Guy has gone stale in that regard. The only thing I no longer watch is the Simpsons as it has gone beyond stale, its actually decomposing.

[raulduke]

Oh trust me there is a limit to what is acceptable in comedy.

Watch some of this guy (Roy Chubby Brown) and I'm sure you will agree...

[juansolo]

Add to that Bernard Manning and the likes of Jim Davidson, etc.

But it is of an era, as in there day's they were popular...

[culturejam]

For comedy? No, not really.

George Carlin did a great bit about how you can literally joke about anything, including rape or cancer. It's all about how you exaggerate to make the bit funny.

So you either have to tell the bald truth (and it must be true!), or you have to exaggerate so wildly that it's obvious you are being humorous. Sitting in the middle is, at best, douchey; at worst it is ignorance and/or hate poorly disguised as a joke.

I think another question for discussion is: Does the show Top Gear qualify as a comedy show?

I have not watched an entire episode, but it seemed to me to be old-fart rich white guys dicking around with expensive cars. AKA, business as usual in the first world West. Not especially funny, to me.

[Muadzin]

Oh trust me there is a limit to what is acceptable in comedy.

Watch some of this guy (Roy Chubby Brown) and I'm sure you will agree...

Again, if you don't like something, why watch it and why get worked up over it?

There is growing income inequality in the world, ebola rages still in Africa, practically the whole Sahara and Middle East is now a no go area thanks to Islamic terrorism, the polar ice caps in the North Pole are melting thanks to climate change, continuing instability in the Ukraine and former USSR. And yet we get worked up over a few comedians who may or may not be funny?? Maybe a little less political correctness is in order and a lot more get back to the real problems we face as a species!

[midwayfair]

Maybe a little less political correctness is in order and a lot more get back to the real problems we face as a species!

Have you considered that "political correctness" might actually be born out of a desire to understand one's fellow human beings and not simply "not offending people"? Many ills of society are reinforced simply by language. Publicly making it clear that someone's statement is unacceptable for current or ideal social norms can have implications that go way beyond just deciding whether someone's funny or not, and changing the channel doesn't change the world.

[raulduke]

Oh trust me there is a limit to what is acceptable in comedy.

Watch some of this guy (Roy Chubby Brown) and I'm sure you will agree...

Again, if you don't like something, why watch it and why get worked up over it?

There is growing income inequality in the world, ebola rages still in Africa, practically the whole Sahara and Middle East is now a no go area thanks to Islamic terrorism, the polar ice caps in the North Pole are melting thanks to climate change, continuing instability in the Ukraine and former USSR. And yet we get worked up over a few comedians who may or may not be funny?? Maybe a little less political correctness is in order and a lot more get back to the real problems we face as a species!

I can't say I get worked up over it. I certainly won't be loosing any sleep worrying about Chubby Brown cracking another homophobic/racist/sexist (take your pick) joke.

I don't watch him... but I know who enough about him, and have seen enough of his material through various sources over the years, to know what he is and what attitude to various minorities he has.

If he's entitled to crack his jokes (free speech and all that), then am I not entitled to think he's a racist piece of shit?

Things won't get better if we just brush it all under the carpet and pretend that these problems and attitudes don't still exist.

I think there is a line... but some people cross the line and try to cover it under a veil as 'comedy' and 'just for laughs'.

EDIT: Just seen Jon's post, and as per usual, he has hit the nail on the head.