An apology to members

[midwayfair]

I would like to see a contest in which a requirement for entry is that the pedal must use a Madbean fabricated PCB. No categories. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and People's Choice winners. Done.

This has legal issues: it requires a purchase. Considering you'd have to wrangle with sweepstakes laws, it's better to just ensure that it's no purchase necessary.

[culturejam]

This has legal issues: it requires a purchase. Considering you'd have to wrangle with sweepstakes laws, it's better to just ensure that it's no purchase necessary.

I have half a dozen madbean PCBs right now, and I haven't purchased any of them. Somebody, at some point, purchased them, but it wasn't me.

On the other hand, any contest entry is going to require purchases: parts, perfboard, paint, etc. You can't build a pedal without someone having bought the parts at some point in time. Purchases are always necessary.

Frankly, I doubt the sweepstakes police are going to be all that interested in a contest here. You never know, but I kinda doubt it.

[jubal81]

I would like to see a contest in which a requirement for entry is that the pedal must use a Madbean fabricated PCB. No categories. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and People's Choice winners. Done.

If anything you could do madbean and affiliated sites. That would give plenty of variety.

I like this one. Madbean or a supported-forum PCB - and by simple popular vote. It would narrow the scope to be more reasonable and should be clear-cut and tidy to wrap up.


I love how this forum is unique with so many people making their own layouts and effects, but it's hard to compare an original layout vs. a pedal that looks better - and that's something I think the judging was supposed to compensate for.

[jubal81]

I would like to see a contest in which a requirement for entry is that the pedal must use a Madbean fabricated PCB. No categories. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and People's Choice winners. Done.

This has legal issues: it requires a purchase. Considering you'd have to wrangle with sweepstakes laws, it's better to just ensure that it's no purchase necessary.

No purchase necessary with vero:


http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/search/label/Madbean

[selfdestroyer]

I have always felt that this is a a very active community and it seems there are many of us (including myself) that can dedicate almost a daily time to participate in the forum discussions. I have a job that requires much desk time and with the help of multiple monitors, I am able to be on the forum most of the day. This is not the case for all people, some have demanding jobs, family life and other major hobbies. Just life in general can take away from things we love. I know what its like to get to wrapped up in life/other and loose track of time or realize I'm over my head. The biggest thing I learned that made a difference during these time is communication (like Brian & Jacob have both pointed out the lack of). I think 99% of the frustration could have been avoided by just more communication. Even the simple "Life is in the way of having fun at the moment" kind of response is better than nothing.

What I love about this forum was the fact that people here actually care for each other since we feel so connected with this hobby, its close knit for sure. If you notice the member first started asking if Jacob was OK and has anyone heard from him. I like how we already assume that something might be up when there is a delay. I never assume something is being neglected on purpose here like I would with other forums. Things can only get better from this point since we now have a good case of "what would go wrong if..." scenario.

In my personal case, I submitted a build I had done already and was not rushed to finish, well other than making a demo, which I am terrible at. But, some members worked very hard and pushed themselves to the last hour to finish their project to get submitted on time. That being said, I can definitely understand the frustrations surrounding this contest.

Since I finally built up some confidence to submit something (and getting runner up which I am SUPER excited about since there were so many awesome projects submitted) I would hate to see the contests be pulled. I think we all benefit from the push and a little competition to get us all to hone our craft. Just like other members have said, simpler would be less of a headache for sure. I do like the the idea of having a popular vote or runners up since it does add that "maybe I can win" factor to those of us that are still building confidence in our builds.

All in all it was a great contest and brought out some great projects and great demo and a few new members. So its a win in my book for sure. Thanks Brian for allowing us to use this great place for all aspects of DIY pedals/more and to build relationships with like minded individuals. I simple love this place and its the only forum I am active in for the reasons above.

Cody

[Betty Wont]

I would like to see a contest in which a requirement for entry is that the pedal must use a Madbean fabricated PCB. No categories. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and People's Choice winners. Done.

I would like to see a contest in which a requirement for entry is that the pedal must use a Madbean fabricated PCB. No categories. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and People's Choice winners. Done.

If anything you could do madbean and affiliated sites. That would give plenty of variety.

I like this one. Madbean or a supported-forum PCB - and by simple popular vote. It would narrow the scope to be more reasonable and should be clear-cut and tidy to wrap up.

and a road rage doesn't count

[wgc]

I have not entered a contest mostly because I build for my own enjoyment; for me the work is its own reward. 

But I LOVE to see the work people submit, especially this one, which happened during a really stressful time for me.  Crazy how high the bar is. 

So please don't take my approach, because then we won't get to see all the sweet pedals y'all are doing.   

I think its easy to forget how much time and effort goes into supporting a contest, and the prizes are super cool.  A big thank you to all involved.

I like the popular vote with maybe a few categories vs 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or perhaps themes for each or a quarterly themed contest.  ie New builder, overdrive, phaser, delay, etc. 

[Justus]

This has legal issues: it requires a purchase. Considering you'd have to wrangle with sweepstakes laws, it's better to just ensure that it's no purchase necessary.

I have half a dozen madbean PCBs right now, and I haven't purchased any of them. Somebody, at some point, purchased them, but it wasn't me.

On the other hand, any contest entry is going to require purchases: parts, perfboard, paint, etc. You can't build a pedal without someone having bought the parts at some point in time. Purchases are always necessary.

Frankly, I doubt the sweepstakes police are going to be all that interested in a contest here. You never know, but I kinda doubt it.

"Purchase Required" means a purchase from the contest sponsor, not just a purchase of materials from any supplier you wish.

* I like the idea of requiring an incorporation of Madbean or affiliated products, but a way to avoid the "purchase required" problem is to allow etchers to fab their own boards from the free Etcher's Paradise Emporium of Madbean Single-sided Layouts.


* take it with a grain of salt - I haven't even completed a build report yet, let alone entered a contest.  Total newb here.

[culturejam]

"Purchase Required" means a purchase from the contest sponsor, not just a purchase of materials from any supplier you wish.

Just did a little reading. I'm not lawyer or paralegla, but I can Google. The "no purchase required" thing applies to sweepstakes, not contests. Contests are prohibited from requiring payment or purchase to *claim* a prize or other winnings, but there doesn't seem to be a prohibition on a purchase for entry.

What we're doing here is a contest, which is judged on the skill of the entrant. Sweepstakes have the element of chance involved in determining winners (ie - there is a random drawing), and are not skill-based. Sweepstakes are essentially lotteries that don't required any form of consideration from the entrants.

I got this from an interesting article summarizes the relevant laws:

Because chance is not key to winning, contest sponsors may require entrants to provide consideration to enter, although some states limit the types of consideration that may be requested.

Not sure if Tennessee law would prevail here, or if the laws in all the states of the entrants would need to be adhered to.

[culturejam]

To blather further on the law...

I just read that some states consider any effort required to enter a contest to be "consideration", so building a pedal itself is tantamount to paying an entry fee or being required to buy a specific item from a specific vendor, legally speaking.

Interesting stuff.

[billstein]

I like the idea of a contest now and then with MadBean and affiliated forums. Since the thought of being forced to buy boards has been brought up, maybe that could be overcome with each forum that wants to enter also providing prizes. That way the community from both sides are taking care of each other.
Personally the thought of having to buy a board to enter the contest doesn't bother me. Heck, it provides an excuse.

Does there have to be judges at all? Popular vote and it's settled. This community is more than willing to handle that responsibility. The winners are announced and the place they finished. Maybe the number of places could coincide with the number of affiliates who want to be a part and who have provided prizes. The finishers are told to contact the vendor with the mailing details.

[brucer]

Let me say that the reason an apology is necessary is because 1) I do genuinely feel sorry that things went down that way and 2) it is important to show accountability when things go wrong. So, let's not focus too much on the necessity of it, if that's okay.

I totally get the apology (I think) and appreciate it (not that I was directly affected by the issue at hand).  I'm not a longtime forum member, but I VERY MUCH appreciate the positive, supportive tone here and I've DEFINITELY benefited from the deep wells of member expertise (never mind the AWESOME project PCB's).  Hopefully, amongst my meager 155 posts, I've also contributed something helpful or positive.  The sniping dialogue associated with the most recent contest was isolated, but a real bummer and had me avoiding threads on otherwise interesting topics (which of the fantastic builds were in for prizes?).  That doubly sucked, for me anyway.

So, moving forward ... like others have said, the builds submitted in MB contests set the bar almost ridiculously high (enough to put me off submitting ... and that was BEFORE recordings were added), BUT they're REALLY inspiring stuff all the same.  It would be great to see the contests continue.  PCB, vero or otherwise ... all submissions generate interest and offer inspiration.  A big +1 though to a simple voting system with prizes allocated purely on voting results ... members will decide what most inspires and impresses them, be it inspired amateur or semi-professional.  Who know's?  Only the Shadow.

One man's opinion, nothing more.   Thanks for everything, Brian.  You do great work and provide a great service.

[cooder]

Let me say that the reason an apology is necessary is because 1) I do genuinely feel sorry that things went down that way and 2) it is important to show accountability when things go wrong. So, let's not focus too much on the necessity of it, if that's okay.

I did certainly not want to diminish or wipe away the apology, it is great in the sense of accountability and respect shown all over this forum even when things get a bit out of hand to get things back straight again. Certainly get that.

Thinking a bit more about it I would also think to make it as easy and straight forward as possible is just 3 placings by popular vote, relativly low key prizes (after all none of us is here for the money or the girls... right?). That will mean a fixed timeframe to submit entries, a fixed timeframe to get results and celebrate. This community is active and responsible enough to do that.

I also would think it is good to have another contest soon to blow these cobwebs out and to look forward.

[m-Kresol]

As this was my first contest, this one was important for me. I never thought I'd have a chance since the bar is set really high as mentioned. Winning was not the reason I participated. I just wanted to take the next step in the community by submitting the pedal I liked best of the applicable period. There was no stress involved at all, just pure fun! And that's the reason I definitely want the contests to continue in the future in one way or the other. Just having a look at the older contests, is one big collection of pure awesome.

Personally, I like the approach with judges. It takes time and effort, but I had the feeling that the judges just have a deeper understanding of the build and the build quality from many aspects. I just think "Hey, that one is pretty/neat/great artwork" and vote for it, often without considering other aspects. Nevertheless, I think one overall winner plus maybe two categories is enough. the Categories could change from contest to contest so everyone could participate when they see their strong suit as a category. Not everyone is good at or even cares about exterior design but might love pcb layouting. others don't care for guts and work wonders on the outside...

I think a quarterly contest could be a good approach as organisation, sponsoring and voting would be kept at a manageable level

after all none of us is here for the money or the girls... right?

My electronics teacher once told us: "you'll never impress a girl with electronics. 'I've got a four channel oscilloscope' was never a good pick-up line."

[davent]

Communication breakdown, a simple update/word here and there would have avoided most/all of the pissing that eventually took over.

Keep it simple and personally, i'd prefer not knowing or being able to see the vote count until the voting is closed,  keep everyone on the edge of their seats, an element of surprise, it's not over until the last ballot is counted.
dave