One way ticket to Mars

[chuckbuick]

I think this trip to Mars would be like eating acid and walking around the desert.  It's pretty bitchin the first few days.  But after that you just want to get home, take a shower and sleep in your own bed.  So I've heard.

[billstein]

I'd probably be up for that... Thought I'm not sure they'll want to send a (then) 53 year old fat geek into space...

I dunno, "53 Year-Old Fat Geek in Space" sounds like a pretty solid B movie.

I think I saw that last month on Netflix.

[pickdropper]

I'd probably be up for that... Thought I'm not sure they'll want to send a (then) 53 year old fat geek into space...

I dunno, "53 Year-Old Fat Geek in Space" sounds like a pretty solid B movie.

I think I saw that last month on Netflix.

Or Sci-Fi channel.  Or both.

I too would like to see more action from our space program.  We're going to make this planet pretty damn uncomfortable to live on as the population grows.  We need to start the process of off-planet colonization.

[ggarms]

Totally. I'm surprised more attention isn't paid to the fact that we will need to recolonize if our species is to survive. Granted, if a bunch of nerdz (I use the term endearingly) on a pedal forum are discussing it, there's got to be at least a subcommittee or something. I think they'd likely be hush hush about it as to not upset anyone. It's kind of a bummer though, when I bring this kind of stuff up to who don't really know me, people who are on the level of "work friends" or less, they look at me like i'm the one who's insane. It's just completely off of their radar.

[blearyeyes]

When we finally get the plans all in place, Earth will get hit by a monster comet and giant cockroaches will end up ruling the earth, chatting on a future 40 string guitar forum, and trying to figure out how to scurry off to another planet to survive on.

[madbean]

Essentially everything has become about money. Everything. Which is stunting us as a species, because if it doesn't make money, it's not done.

50 years ago we landed a man on the moon. The motivations for this are well known (the other thing we like to do as a species...). BUT we decided to do it, our best and brightest were given the tools they needed and they showed us what we were capable of.

Space exploration will be largely commercial in the next century now that there are individuals and organizations that are wealthy enough to finance it without government entanglements. I don't know if that is good or bad, but that is how it's going to be. The first mission that successfully mines an asteroid will become the most profitable in all of human history. There's trillions of dollars out there waiting to be taken and as soon as it is feasible someone will do it. If we are lucky, the people who make this happen will have enough vision to use it for the betterment of mankind. If not, we are pretty well fucked. I mean, at some point these few people will acquire so much wealth it will become meaningless (I'm talking an order of magnitude beyond the richest person in the world right now) so it seems inevitable that it will work out for us in the end, somehow. Also, I'm not terribly cynical when it comes to "futurism" so I have a skewed viewpoint.

[alanp]

Penn & Teller made the point on Bullshit that for space exploration to be economical, private enterprise is going to have to be involved at some point (government agencies of any sort are not known for efficiency.)

They also made the point that NASA needs to be kept involved at the research level, because private enterprise isn't on the same planet as NASA when it comes to that.

This is working off memory.

[pickdropper]

Penn & Teller made the point on Bullshit that for space exploration to be economical, private enterprise is going to have to be involved at some point (government agencies of any sort are not known for efficiency.)

They also made the point that NASA needs to be kept involved at the research level, because private enterprise isn't on the same planet as NASA when it comes to that.

This is working off memory.

That makes a lot of sense.

If nothing else, we know how Arnold Schartzenegger feels:

http://getyoasstomars.ytmnd.com/

[juansolo]

I have to agree with John. Every time I drive on the freeway in Southern California and think about all the excess metal wrapped around single drivers and fossil fuel explosions excreting poisonous gasses pushing people down the road I think why are we doing this?

Don't get me wrong I love cars and motor racing. I just think that progress in alternative fuels has been seriously stunted by the petroleum industry. In 100 years we've still not figured out a way of getting hydrogen efficiently. A perfect fuel. It's one of the most abundant elements on the planet, the most harmful thing it puts out when burnt as a fuel is water.

Penn & Teller made the point on Bullshit that for space exploration to be economical, private enterprise is going to have to be involved at some point (government agencies of any sort are not known for efficiency.)

They also made the point that NASA needs to be kept involved at the research level, because private enterprise isn't on the same planet as NASA when it comes to that.

The serious issue I have with that is the way private mega corps work (which I know from first hand experience). The people that make the decisions have had so much power for so long that they've convinced themselves that they're the only ones capable of making them. They don't listen to people with expert knowledge and I could see things going horribly wrong. Also the cogs in the machine of private industry are just numbers on a spreadsheet to them... You really think they give a fuck? Finally the ruling factor is always money. So it's never 'how can we do this right' it's 'how can we do this as cheaply as possible and maximise our profits'.

The whole concept of big business being involved in something as complex as space travel scares the shit out of me for the poor bastards doing the actual work (who will be the scape goats when it inevitably goes horribly wrong) and the people in the capsules who's lives depend on it.

For a perfect example of how things work in the work for the expert these days I give you this. This isn't a comedy sketch. I found myself in this situation more times than I can remember (and developed my own way of dealing with it).

[Muadzin]

Well, we have to get off this planet as a species at some point. Its not healthy for a baby to remain in its crib for the rest of its life, why should we remain on ours? Also, even if we do get everything in order and make Earth the happiest bestest place, as long as we all remain on this planet we can still be snuffed out as a species by a comet or asteroid hitting our planet. It's not like it hasn't happened before.

[Willybomb]

Why should we go to Mars?  Ideally, because we can.  It would be nice to say we don't need a new home, or no one wants to make money out of it, but that's not really the case.  Lets just go for the hell of it and see what we can do and learn.

I'm no Greenie Hippie Conservationist, but truthfully though, I look around at the madness around me and it brings me down.  We basically strip mine the ocean of fish to grind them into food for "sustainable" fish farming...  The governments are selling off their stores of Helium so we can have nice balloons, but Helium is non-renewable and is nearly essential for cooling important medical equipment.  How much energy does it take, and how much dirt must be dug up to make a "green" car.  How are we going to supply the energy to charge an electric car?  How are we going to get the resources to build solar panels?

The ocean is broken.  Trillons of plastic beads used in skin care product populate the water.  Rubbish fills the pacific.  Radioactive effluent has made it from Japan to the US.  Shipping containers regularly fall off the boats...

Soylent Green, here we come.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1848433/the-ocean-is-broken/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch

Lets face it.  We've fucked it.

TANSTAAFL ladies and gents, TANSTAAFL.

The single most important invention since has been the internet, which should have been a way for the best and brightest to communicate more successfully

And, the single thing that is responsible for its growth... Porn.  Followed closely by piracy.  People used to think that the internet would collapse under the traffic flowing through it, but failed to realise that the industry would just build bigger and better pipes.  Not complaining too much, I like looking at beautiful naked women as much as the next guy.

[midwayfair]

Penn & Teller made the point on Bullshit that for space exploration to be economical, private enterprise is going to have to be involved at some point (government agencies of any sort are not known for efficiency.)

This is demonstrably wrong. NASA is a money maker for the U.S. government. And a good one at that. NASA has something like a 700% profit margin, plus its noneconomic benefits, such as aiding in the creation of soft power.

Space exploration technology research also, importantly, may lead to very important discoveries in sustainability. I don't know what they'll do to solve the rocket fuel problem, but food, clean water, and everyday power all need to be solved in a completely sustainable way if we are to send humans anywhere further than the moon.

I have way too many thoughts on this subject for a post in the morning before work.

[TNblueshawk]

Some great points in here.

In a nutshell, I get what others are saying with our priorities. For me it's the frustration of seeing the fraud and the greed on truly unprecidented levels (technology has advanced this in my belief) and no one seems willing to curb it. The powers that be aid it and are part of it so the fox is guarding the hen house. That is beyond frustrating. So when we see billions and billions spent on something that will benefit the human race in 200 years I get why some think, screw that, what about people dying and starving right now?

Having said all that I also see why we must continue to push foward. Had we not done this up to this point something tells me none of us would be talking to each other via a Madbean forum, you know? That has to be done I think to advance. If we could take care of the outright greed and fraud being committed via all kinds of avenues then I don't think anyone would have a problem with space exploration really.

It's a flustercluck right now and frankly it won't get better. I checked out in late 2010 and said F it, I'm not going to sweat it any more. I'll do my time until I'm toast and do the best I can until then. I refuse to stress about the injustices any more, even though at times it does fly all over me and I have to get control again.

[RobA]

Penn & Teller made the point on Bullshit that for space exploration to be economical, private enterprise is going to have to be involved at some point (government agencies of any sort are not known for efficiency.)

This is demonstrably wrong. NASA is a money maker for the U.S. government. And a good one at that. NASA has something like a 700% profit margin, plus its noneconomic benefits, such as aiding in the creation of soft power.

Space exploration technology research also, importantly, may lead to very important discoveries in sustainability. I don't know what they'll do to solve the rocket fuel problem, but food, clean water, and everyday power all need to be solved in a completely sustainable way if we are to send humans anywhere further than the moon.

I have way too many thoughts on this subject for a post in the morning before work.

+1 to Jon's points. The returns from the economic investment in NASA, NOAA, NIST, etc. have been incredible. If you add in the academic and military research spending, nearly all of the current economy of the US and large parts of the world depends on these socialist spending programs. The vast majority of this research wouldn't have ever been done under a private capitalist organization because the returns are too far out in time. Private investors putting money into anything with a longer than 2 year time to return is pretty damn rare.

I wouldn't expect Penn & Teller to come to any other conclusion given their Libertarian viewpoints, but the concept that private industry is more efficient than government and academic research is on-its-face laughable simply from the point that all of that private industry is totally dependent on the research that was done on the other side of the economic fence.  From personal experience, if any private company I've worked at had to be as efficient as the academic departments I've been in, they wouldn't have a clue how to operate. Some of those I've worked at that have gone out of business might still be in business though because they all seemed to be able to burn through unimaginable heaps of money on toner cartridges and paper alone.

Other than local space tourism and satellite launching and servicing, the economics  of commercial space flight isn't really there yet. It may well be that in the not too distant future that changes because of mining asteroids and such -- although I'd guess that this will be done purely robotically -- but even then the private sector work is going to be based on lots of socialist research that still needs to be done.   

[TNblueshawk]

Agree completely with the above. But just to counterpoint, government can be and is so many times entirely inefficient on so many levels we all could sit here and just type out program after progam after program of total waste, outright fraud and uttter incompentence. Google Pork Barrel politics and start from there and work your way down and branch off into any sector one wishes.

Just for the sake of discussion if it takes 1 billion to do something good and we spend 5 billion instead is that not 4 billion in utter waste even if the goal/mission was completed successfully? I'm not sure if that is what the other poster was really pointing at but it is what I'm pointing at. So would that 4 billion not be better spent on other things as opposed to a politicians pocket or someone's "profit" pocket due to fraud?

Not arguing with you guys as I think we are talking the same language.