The fuzz tone I've been looking for - Triclops Fuzz

[lars]

Amazing work!

I've only very recently started delving into the world of the Pumkins SD fuzz debate mess so I was really happy to see this.

Would love to buy a PCB if and when one is available.

It really is a mess, isn't it? I would like to get a hold of the original tab book for SD from 1994. Apparently it mentions what effects are used on different parts for some songs. Some of the confusion was fueled by an inside joke between Vig and Corgan on the Vieuphoria video as well, where they kept referring to "running everything through it" when showing various gear (which they probably used all that gear very little, if any). The reality is, no one fuzz box is going to give all the tone on that album, there was just so much layering, post-processing, and oddball combinations of fuzz units. I still think a Microsynth gives the best "SD in a box" performance, since it can also do octaves and bit-crushed gated fuzz.

[Loztboy]

Really interesting. Sounds killer!
If a board is ever made I want some

[blearyeyes]

Encase it in clear resin to immortalize it!

Great sounding, great job, so that means you're not the worlds worst bread boarder!
Creative and hyper-focused got you there bro!

Now you just need to find some eyeball knobs to go with the Triclops theme..

[the3secondrule]

slight highjack - I've pinched a couple of your ideas for my microsynth fuzz I was working on earlier in the year (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=15892.0)

In particular the 10k pot on pin 5 to v+, which has replaced the whole octave up/squarewave modulator section. Would you say that would be better as a Trimmer or a Pot?

this is the schem I have currently (linking as the image is huge) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19219628/squarewave%20stripped.png. need to order some more boards so I can work on it further

I'm thinking I can probably get rid of the whole +/-9v set up too.

/thread derail

If you can get your schematic locked down up, I'd be happy to tackle a layout for you.

[lars]

I finally got a layout and BOM posted up in the Member Projects area here:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=19356.0
I would etch a board to verify, but I'm out of etchant and my local RS doesn't carry it anymore!

[davent]

I finally got a layout and BOM posted up in the Member Projects area here:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=19356.0
I would etch a board to verify, but I'm out of etchant and my local RS doesn't carry it anymore!

Check out muriatic acid/hydrogen peroxide as an etchant. Hardware store/drug store would have you covered.

[ChristianN]

This is an old thread, but I've come back to it several times, and think this is relevant to the topic. I used a Bosstone, muff, and some pitch shifting to get this sound.


This is the closest I've been able to get, with one single guitar. It's in D standard, so I didn't practice it to the actual song and just played it from memory, but was trying to get as close as possible to the sound with one single guitar track. (I'm positive the solos on the album were mostly multitracked and perhaps even comped!)
https://soundcloud.com/christiannoir/smashing-pumpkins-cherub-rock-solo-cover-in-d-standard

Ever since I read that the Smashing Pumpkin's Siamese Dream album owed a lot of it's fuzz tones to an MSA pedal steel guitar fuzz unit, I've been trying to find out what that fuzz circuit was. I finally settled on the fact that it must be a version of the Jordan Bosstone, specifically the Sho-Sound Nashville version. But I know the EHX Microsynth was also used heavily on the album as well, most likely in combination with the MSA unit to get those really heavy, gated fuzz riffs (sorry Big Muff).

One of the fuzz pedals I breadboarded a while back was an ESR Graphic Fuzz. I didn't have a 741 available for the circuit, so I used a curious IC from a Cadillac 8-track player labeled "DM90", made by AC Delco. Since it was an 8-pin metal can IC, I figured it could be an old 741, so I tried it out.
It worked!
Kind of. The only way to get it to really work well was to put a 10k pot between pins 1 and 5 with the wiper to ground. I thought I was adjusting the offset null, but I was getting this heavily gated fuzz sound, nothing like a 741. It made it sound more like the fuzz tones from a Microsynth. Well, the Microsynth is full of OTAs, so I figured that must account for that unique gated fuzz sound. I ordered a CA3080 and put it in the ESR Graphic Fuzz circuit. This time I set up a 10k pot just on pin 5 to V+ for the gate bias. It worked almost exactly like that old "DM90" IC from the 8-track, so that must have been an old metal can OTA (unfortunately that original metal can IC from the 8-track is dead. If you ever see one for sale anywhere, BUY IT! You can make some incredible fuzz tones with it).

Now back to the Bosstone circuit. I breadboarded that up and got it sounding the way I wanted, then also breadboarded the modified ESR graphic fuzz circuit with an OTA chip in it and ran the two in series.

And there was that fuzz tone! It took a little bit of tweaking on the amplifier bias control, and the filter control, but at full tilt this thing produces a sound that I've only really heard on songs like Cherub Rock. Especially for solos, it changes the way the guitar "feels". I'm worried to disassemble the components to try to put it on a pcb, but I'm going to make sure to document all the connections. I'll have to hand-draw the etch because there are some mods, and I have yet to see an accurate ESR graphic fuzz pcb layout (if there is one I'd like a link ).

Here's a picture of the breadboard mess (I am the world's worst breadboarder). I can't believe it makes any sound at all. I'll try to get a soundclip up as well, while it's working :



I've since decided to call this project the "Triclops Fuzz" in recognition of Triclops Sound Studios in Atlanta, where Siamese Dream was recorded.

[EddieClark]

Sorry about the necro post but this post was so helpful. I suck at recording. All my recordings are always lacking in the low end but I just wanted to share this take on the Cherub Rock solo. I used a Jordan Boss Tone clone with a Microsynth and a Strymon Deco to clone the tape reel sounds. I covered the whole song but skip to 3:08 for the solo. I'm pretty sure this is the right album chain.

https://youtu.be/QY0a63439bw

[midwayfair]

dang dude. Absolutely worth the necro!

[lars]

That's the best cover I have ever heard of Cherub Rock! It's 99.9% perfect. The only thing missing:  that awesome Micro Synth "broken decay" that happens at the very end. That broken decay sound was actually the key that made me realize it wasn't just a Big Muff. The Big Muff is really only a small fraction of the "Smashing Pumpkins" sound. I still have a built original version of the Triclops Fuzz on my board. Something special about that circuit. It uses a General Motors DM90 metal can IC that I pulled out of a late 70's Cadillac 8-track radio. To this day, I still have no idea what in the world that IC is, but the fuzz it creates is epic. It's like they took the micro synth square wave tone and shrunk it into an 8-pin IC. Lately I've been blasting it with a Boss OD-2. It's the best lead tone I've ever used.

[EddieClark]

Thank both of you! Being pointed to the Boss Tone type pedal was a game changer.

I tried to get the glitch broken sound at the end but the Microsynth just doesn't always glitch out the same. You can hear it ringing the chord at the end but it just isn't "it". Lars, do you happen to have a schematic of your Triclops Fuzz? I would love to try it out in place of the Boss Tone clone. There's a few sounds from that album that still haunt me. For example, the opening lead in Hummer after the first octave chord section is finished.

[jimilee]

That was huge! Fuzzy octavy sounding goodness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aleph Null]

Guess it's time to build a Boss Tone!

[lars]

Lars, do you happen to have a schematic of your Triclops Fuzz?

The key was this demo:

I was amazed at how "Siamese Dream" the ESR graphic fuzz sounded, so I decided to breadboard one. Then I started playing around with the unused pins of a typical 741, because I always wondered what the offset null thing was all about. When I subbed in that old DM90 chip, that was the gamechanger. I suddenly had a gated Micro Synth sound with an extremely simple circuit. So the original Triclops Fuzz is just the ESR Graphic Fuzz circuit with the DM90 chip subbed in for the 741. It does require pins 1 and 5 to be connected to a 10K pot to adjust the "bias" (and once it's dialed in you can pretty much put in the permanent resistor values since a pot doesn't really provide a control). I don't understand the in's and out's of what all is going on...it was all just accidents that worked out. I will gladly share all my files I have on the project, but in the end the key sound hinges on getting that DM90 chip. No other changes or different chips yielded that same incredible sound as the original accident.

[jwin615]

Wonder if the dm90 is a rebadged OP90? Or the OP90 is a modern derivative of whatever the DM90 was?
Interesting sound here:
https://youtu.be/UHkcI_Vi3is