Wonky drilling or too picky?

[jkokura]

I should add too, that a polite email back to Connie stating that you'd like her to take a closer look at your picture, and to point out exactly what you're seeing, might yield whatever other result you're looking for. If you're looking for them to just send out another enclosure they probably will.

If you're wanting a refund, they've already offered that.

Jacob

[mcallisterra]

Quite frankly, I'm not seeing much wrong with the email response they gave you. It was courteous, and they offered you a solution. What else were you expecting? You can get a refund, so I don't understand your 'I'm never dealing with them again' stance. It's fine if that's what you want to do, but I don't see the rationale.

But you're upset over having a bad enclosure, so that must be taken into perspective. I hope that you'll feel better about the situation soon.

Jacob

I was initially looking for a replacement, but the response I received made it pretty clear that wasn't on the table.

I'm never dealing with them again because that email is nothing more than a fob-off of a blatant mistake. You can tell me you're not sending me a replacement and are only going to offer a refund, and that's fine, but don't do it under the guise of the holes being *intentionally* drilled like that to allow for "aligning parts".

I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

[flanagan0718]

If it did come from PPP let Connie know. She will be more than happy to exchange it or at least refund. I agree with Jacob on the colors and enclosures. They have the best and the best. I also side with bcalla. Their shipping is WAY to high and as for parts...well they are kind of limited. Their prices are a little high but not way off. And their site could use an overhaul...I digress. My thoughts are. If it was for me or a "parts cost pedal" for a good friend I'd let it slide. If I was gonna sell it to someone I didn't know. I would raise the flag. That's just me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alanp]

Always preferred Smallbear to PPP -- the range of parts is like the National Library of New Zealand, compared to a technophile's non-kindle bookshelf, and while the shipping is also painful on SB, the pricing is easier to swallow in light of the range (it's easier to cost-justify, as an earlier poster put it.) Plus SB does some pre-drilled stuff. I honestly don't know if they do CUSTOM, just that they do something.

Oh, and I fully expect a professionally done job to look professional, not like a DIY jobbie.

[peAk]

Damn, after seeing that, I feel much better about my crappy drilling.

[Stomptown]

I had a very similar response from PPP when I received a scratched up bottom plate with a wah enclosure. They said it shouldn't matter since it's just on the bottom anyway. I had to go back and fourth to get them to send a new one, which they did after I explained that it was for a customer and they deserve a finished product that looks new! In the end, I agree they must deal with a lot of OCD pedal builders (like myself) who fixate on small things and as such take an initial hardline stance in hopes people who are over reacting will back off. At the end of the day, PPP strives for quality so I still use them for powder coated enclosures and such. My two cents: keep fighting for a new enclosure! That thing looks like crap and I'm guessing they will make it right!

[sturgeo]

I doubt they use a CNC, i do mine on our CNC and have never seen milling that bad.

If its one of their off the shelf layouts they'd have the code, pop the enclosure in the vise, load up the code, maybe set the z co-ord depending on the last job, away you go, perfectly milled holes.

For a result like that the machine must have so much backlash and be poorly maintained.

The fact they are also referred to in the email as "drillers" would suggest otherwise as well.

[bcalla]

I managed customer service organizations for many years and had to deal with all kinds of customer problems - some caused by my employer, some by the customer.  After re-reading Connie's reply, it is only a reasonable response if she didn't see the photo you sent her.  She mentions that they pulled enclosures drilled from the same drill pattern and don't see a problem.  Obviously you're complaining about your enclosure, not theirs.

I think I would give them another shot at fixing this.  I would reply back with the photo and politely ask that she compare the photo with what she has in stock.  I would also make clear that you think the appropriate solution here is a replacement.

If she doesn't agree then I would accept the refund and move on.

[mcallisterra]

Well I tried to ask Connie to look at the photo again, and over the course of the next two emails, the second of which was me asking for a replacement, these were some of the things that were said:

"My point was, even from the picture you sent; I couldn't see the problem."

and in the second email, after I asked for a replacement:

"I'm sorry, but I'm really confused.  You do understand that the replacement will be just like the one you already have?  I'm not following the logic of sending another one that is just like the one you have and don't like."

So if you're planning on ordering a pre-drilled enclosure from PPP, beware, they all look identical to mine!

Done. Sending it back.

[Leevibe]

Well I tried to ask Connie to look at the photo again, and over the course of the next two emails, the second of which was me asking for a replacement, these were some of the things that were said:

"My point was, even from the picture you sent; I couldn't see the problem."

and in the second email, after I asked for a replacement:

"I'm sorry, but I'm really confused.  You do understand that the replacement will be just like the one you already have?  I'm not following the logic of sending another one that is just like the one you have and don't like."

So if you're planning on ordering a pre-drilled enclosure from PPP, beware, they all look identical to mine!

Done. Sending it back.

Wow. Again, I'm surprised. I would have thought that their "high standards" would be above that. She couldn't see the problem? I'm incredulous.

[flanagan0718]

Very disappointing. Sorry to hear that.

[pickdropper]

Well, it's not the most warm and fuzzy response, but they are willing to take it back which is good.

But it seems like that stance is going to eventually backfire on them.  I don't think folks are expecting perfection at their drilling price points, but the execution on that drilling is pretty bad.

I should note that, of all of the pedal suppliers out their (Mammoth, Small Bear, PPP) they are by FAR my preferred vendor.  Their have a much better selection of colors than the others and I've had fewer issues with the strength of their coating than with Mammoth (which always chips on me).

But lately, the quality of their powder coating has been much more variable than I have experienced in the past.  It's possible that it's always been that way and I am just noticing it because I am ordering more enclosures, but it seems to be the case even on the smaller batches.  I've had a few boxes that I simply couldn't use for production; they just have to be pitched aside.  When I find time, I will take photos and send them over and we'll see what they say.  As I said earlier in the thread, Connie has always made things right when I've had issues in the past.  The overall rate of unusable (for production) boxes is under 5%, but that does add up.

But here's the deal; Whenever I've actually purchased a Hammond box from Mouser that was prefinished, the powder coating has always been perfect.  Just a whole different league.  It would stand to reason that Hammond would have a much larger powder coating operating and would be able to hold tighter tolerances but my hope is that, as PPP grows, they would aspire to tighter quality control and it seems to be going the other way.  They are really nice people and I like supporting the smaller business, so I hope they get it together.  If not, I (really we) are going to end up finding a local supplier that are setup for more consistency.  As a hobbyist buying one or two boxes, that isn't practical, but once you start running a few hundred (or more) boxes of the same color per batch, it gets more practical.  I hope it doesn't come to that.

I'm halfway tempted to send a link to Connie to this thread so she can see what the general opinions (good and bad) are of their service.  Sometimes, businesses only get feedback like this in the form of a frustrated customer, so it can be difficult to really get a feel for the overall perception of their service.  Perhaps it would help if they understood that they could possibly be even more successful if they tightened a few things up a little bit.

[culturejam]

Damn, I usually drill better than that, and I eyeball my drill marks most of the time.

I'm very concerned that PPP doesn't see that those drill hits are waaaay out of whack, even by hobbyist standards. If that's not glaringly obviously misaligned, that's a huge red flag. And if all of their pre-drilled boxes are of similar "quality", I wouldn't risk buying any of them.

[mcallisterra]

I'm halfway tempted to send a link to Connie to this thread so she can see what the general opinions (good and bad) are of their service.  Sometimes, businesses only get feedback like this in the form of a frustrated customer, so it can be difficult to really get a feel for the overall perception of their service.  Perhaps it would help if they understood that they could possibly be even more successful if they tightened a few things up a little bit.

I actually already did that a few emails back, to hopefully show that my views weren't wildly out of line with the rest of the community. She didn't acknowledge it in any of her replies.

[wgc]

My experience has been that there is a fine art to complaining constructively. I'm not faulting you, but also not sure what tone you sent. Sometimes you still lose. I'll probably never buy another VW just as an example because they don't seem that interested in honoring emissions warranties. Long story. 

There is also a fine art to constructive complaint resolution. If you have ordered twice and complained twice, they probably review your account and then decide if your business is worth the trouble.   IMHO if they decide it's not really worth it that can backfire because people talk. On the other hand, I doubt their profit margins are very high and there's only so many times you can operate at a loss, which might explain the response you got. (But in that case, make sure you're not sending out blems as top grade stuff. )

Clearly at least 2 of the three holes are off center in at least one axis. Not sure if you explained that in those terms? (If she can't see that, then that may be part of the issue since she's probably QC.) Oversize holes may still make it usable, but that's not exactly what you paid for, and not a great response.  Personally I would expect at least a refund on drilling charges if there were any, or a discount on the next order.

Fwiw, I've ordered their stuff about 4 times in the last two years. The first time was pretty decent stuff, though not completely awesome. The next two times were ok. The fourth time was blems. Seemed like a good deal at the time but actually only 1/2 are something I can use.

Really glad I can powder coat my own boxes these days.

Good luck.