Looking for that one post, you know...

[Jabulani Jonny]

Okay, so I've spent 30 minutes searching for a post that I'm sure no one wants to bring up.  It's about the changes to the components that were found in that one pedal that used to get built on card tables.  You know, Keith over at that other forum did some sleuthing and discovered how the schem for all the "wanna-be-built-on-a-card-table" pedals was wrong. 

So I'm looking for that post to show what components need to be changed in an upcoming build of one of those "wanna-be-built-on-a-card-table" pedals.  Thanks and...carry on. 

[brucer]

R21 and R23 need to be swapped, but which post is it in ....?

Referenced in this one: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=16207.msg155367#msg155367

BTW, I used the same graphic for my build as you did for your multiple horsemen.  Pretty had to beat!  Haven't bonded with it though.  Nice clean boost and pretty nice small-moderate gain add to an amp on the edge of breakup, but otherwise?  Makes me wonder if it's working correctly. 

[midwayfair]

The old Klon trace schematic wasn't wrong. Keith's Klon that he traced for the Silver Pony is an anomaly.

And "need to be swapped" is totally a matter of preference.

[Jabulani Jonny]

The old Klon trace schematic wasn't wrong. Keith's Klon that he traced for the Silver Pony is an anomaly.

And "need to be swapped" is totally a matter of preference.

Ah, an anomaly...those bastards. 

Guess I'll stick with the tried and true and swapping the 8n2 cap like I've done in the past.  Close enough for gub'ment work. 

[jimilee]

Socket it and tune to taste!!!

[juansolo]

Yeah from the sadly missing Klone ninja blog, the original trace was indeed right. But not all Klons are the same it seems and the one BYOC did was quite different.

I built one yesterday with the two resistors swapped and the 3n9 back in place to compare and contrast to the way we've always done them to see which we prefer (as per original trace with an 8n2 tone cap). More out of curiosity than anything. Will back to back it today.

[Jabulani Jonny]

I built one yesterday with the two resistors swapped and the 3n9 back in place to compare and contrast to the way we've always done them to see which we prefer (as per original trace with an 8n2 tone cap). More out of curiosity than anything. Will back to back it today.

Cool.  I'd be interested to hear your thoughts once you do.  Not that we haven't already beaten this dead horse into the afterlife. 

[juansolo]

Didn't get chance today, had to sort out a load more things for the pedal purge and tried to get some decals done. Tomorrow now. But I'll definitely get it done tomorrow...

[mremic01]

Klon ninja, reporting in.

I have a horsieless Gold now and the amount of treble seems to be on par with any oldschool klone. No resistor swap necessary. I'm going to build an A/B looper and do some recordings. My current Klon research is focusing on the magic diodes. Last night I did a quick A/B with a dummy test-klone and a diode switching box I put together, and of all diodes I went through (which wasn't much), the closest were Tayda 1N34As and BAT41s. More research is needed.

[juansolo]

K, I've done the resistor swap with 3n9 vs resistors as they were with 8n2. There's not a lot in it, especially in the middle of the dial (unsurprisingly). But the 3n9/swapped resistor set up definitely works better and isn't as harsh/bright as the 8n2 setup. The 8n2 might have slightly more mids, but that just might be because I know it has...

Either way, liking the 3n9 and reversed resistors, so that's how I'll be building them from now on. We'll ask our friend with the Gold Klon to bring it over next time he pops in to compare.

[midwayfair]

The 8n2 might have slightly more mids, but that just might be because I know it has...

It's not your imagination. The cutoff frequency with 8n2 is a mere 194Hz, which is WELL into the mids, vs. the 408Hz of the 3n9 (which, incidentally, is similar to what's in a Fender amp). The tone control is weird in that the 8.2nF should also be much DARKER counterclockwise, but small changes in those resistors make a big difference.

A larger value pot, by the way, would eliminate some of the variance from the resistors. 25K would be good. 100K might be a little too high (I'd worry about the last op amp destabilizing with that much resistance against the cap).

Oh, and if you like other things about the 8n2, you could always increase the cap across op amp 3. That one's a blanket treble cut before the control ever gets involved.

[mremic01]

The only thing that reversing the resistors is going to do is make it darker at noon. You can get the same thing by turning the knob back a bit. I would never use a Klon with a treble pot turned all the way down, but all the way up makes for a nice treble boost. Reversing the resistors gives you less to work with if you think you might use it that way at some point. On the other hand, if you're anal about keeping the knob at noon, but want it darker, reversing them works well.

One thing I never understood about this error-that-is-not-an-error is that it goes along with a 560pf cap where the old schematic has 820pf. This bumps up the treble again, but reversing the treble pot resistors bumps it back down to where it's about the same. If you only take the resistors into account, you wind up with an extra-dark klone. If you take both, you wind up back where you started.

[juansolo]

LOL at the hidden message!

Yeah it's definitely darker at noon, the settings I like are not where they were (further clockwise now, so that makes sense).

All food for thought.

[midwayfair]

The only thing that reversing the resistors is going to do is make it darker at noon. You can get the same thing by turning the knob back a bit. I would never use a Klon with a treble pot turned all the way down, but all the way up makes for a nice treble boost. Reversing the resistors gives you less to work with if you think you might use it that way at some point. On the other hand, if you're anal about keeping the knob at noon, but want it darker, reversing them works well.

One thing I never understood about this error-that-is-not-an-error is that it goes along with a 560pf cap where the old schematic has 820pf. This bumps up the treble again, but reversing the treble pot resistors bumps it back down to where it's about the same. If you only take the resistors into account, you wind up with an extra-dark klone. If you take both, you wind up back where you started.

Did you have to add any sentences to make this happen? You win One Internets for today, sir.

[Jabulani Jonny]

Definitely food for thought.  I have built them with the 3n9 cap and with the 8n2 cap, and both served a purpose. I liked the extra "clarity" on the top end when using the 3n9 and using the pedal as more of a treble booster, but I also liked the extra body of the 8n2 cap.  The only thing I haven't done is build one with the resistor swap, so I'll probably do that on this one.  Thanks for the info guys.