Gibson Guitar in 2015

[pickdropper]

This would be a strange move on their part after just putting in all the effort in on establishing the low end models. The new Melody Maker and the 2014 LPJ are both really nice guitars for the money and well below $1000 US. The 2014 SGJ is a great guitar and sells for about (US)$500. I understand the hate towards Gibson. The consistency of their guitars had been horrible for years. I haven't considered buying one for decades. Every one of them I played in stores was crap. I tried out a bunch of the 2013 models and they all sucked. Then the 2014 guitars hit. Every one of them I've played is very good. I bought a 2014 SGJ and it's my favorite guitar to play.

I can see them eliminating some models -- they have too many. But, I can't see them getting rid of the low end. If they do put the robot tuners on everything, that'll put them right back in my won't even consider list.

The other thing is that the pressure they are seeing from other manufactures on the low end is huge. I picked up a Charvel Desolation SK-1 for $300 to do some messing around with EMG's -- the thing is amazing. There's no way Gibson can completely ignore this end of the market. If they do, it'll be a huge mistake. I could easily see buying the Charvel as a first guitar and finding out that I'd never need to "move up" to anything else.

I agree.  They have put quite an effort forth to establish the sub-$1k US Gibson market that it seems strange that they would just abandon it, although I suppose they could try to re-establish Epiphone as the cheaper alternative and keep Gibson as the premium only line.

I completely agree about their quality; it's been all over the place for years.  Interesting that you had much better experiences with the 2014 line.  I'll have  to check them out (although I loath that 12th fret anniversary inlay).  The 2015 changes seem pretty funky.  My guess is that they will just revert back if sales flatten.  If nothing else, I'll wait a year for that awful 100th anniversary Les Paul script font to fade out.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Sorry about that. Let me clarify...

I don't know of any "cheapo" Gibson Les Pauls that are not Juniors.

Even the Studio brand can fetch, and is currently fetching like $1K resale 

They should have saved all that expansion money and effort and put it into getting more quality into their Traditional lines as well as the Epiphone lines.

[Willybomb]

Interesting thread.  Not a huge Gibson fan, although when you find a good one it's shit hot, but I can't justify the price tag.

The idea that they're going to go upper market only (assuming that's why they're putting robot tuners on everything) is a bit odd - I just saw a doco where people were pitching marketing ideas to Gibson because they were wanting to branch out as a lifestyle brand and sell Gibbo branded headphones, speakers, et al - which screams "Chinese imports" to me, lol.

http://www.amctv.com/shows/the-pitch/episodes/season-2/gibson-brands

[culturejam]

I'll agree with everyone that their new pricing scale pushes their guitars further away from "a good value". Looks like they are trying to reposition themselves as exclusively a luxury brand that fewer people can/will own. I'll be sad to see their "cheap" guitars go away, as I feel they have done a great job building up that market segment over the past 3-4 years. But whatever, it's their call.

What I don't get is all the automatic tuning hate. I made my position on it pretty clear in a similar thread over at BYOC. Making it a standard features instead of an option is dumb, I totally agree. But the technology is pretty cool, and I can't see that it will instantly make all guitar players turn into idiots that are no longer capable of tuning a guitar the old fashioned way.

If you really want to be a luddite, you should throw away your space-age digital tuner and go back to a tuning fork or pitch pipe...you know, like the good old days back when men were men and Gibson sold 15-lb guitars. 

[pickdropper]

Sorry about that. Let me clarify...

I don't know of any "cheapo" Gibson Les Pauls that are not Juniors.

Even the Studio brand can fetch, and is currently fetching like $1K resale 

They should have saved all that expansion money and effort and put it into getting more quality into their Traditional lines as well as the Epiphone lines.

If you look at the construction techniques of a Les Paul Studio, it really isn't surprising that it's $1k retail.  It's a USA made set-neck guitar.  Can you think of any other USA set-neck guitars that are less than $1k?  They might be out there, but I can't think of them.  It's fairly surprising that they have the Les Paul Melody Makers and SG Juniors at $500 for a USA set-neck instrument.  That's the same price as a MIM Strat or Telecaster.  Hell, even the standard American Strat is $1300 these days and that's a bolt-neck which is easier to manufacturer.

I don't defend Gibson's pricing at the higher end of the scale as I think it's a bit much, but on the low end, I am not sure what they could do to make them cheaper (other than make them somewhere else).

Edit: a Fender American Special Strat is $1k.

[culturejam]

The LPJ, SGJ, and Melody Maker models for 2014 are all really good deals, in my opinion. As Dave pointed out, these are USA-made guitars with set necks and decent woods. I should also point out that the "J" in the name does not mean "junior". The LPJ is carved top and has the signature maple cap that the Studios and up have. It's basically a Studio with a much cheaper finish. And the SGJ is under $500, which is a crazy-good deal on a USA guitar.

Oh, and if anybody wants a "cheap" LP Studio, Sam Ash is blowing out the 2013 in Arctic White for $799:
http://www.samash.com/gibson-les-paul-studio-electric-guitar-chrome-alpine-white-glpstuawc?utm_source=092314newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=komplete

[kothoma]

Last time I was in a music store and checked all(!) Gibson models I just said to myself WTF! Are they f-ing crazy? These are absolutly the lowest value-for-money. Every Asian made PRS SE seemed so much better!

[muddyfox]

Were any 2014 LP Standards among them? I actually looked into starving myself for a year to get one. Of course, by the time they hit Europe, prices are even more ridiculous.

[Tremster]

I heard somewhere that most Gibsons aren't USA-made at all, just made in Asia and final-assembled in America. No other way they could have their cheapest "USA" guitars at that price. But that might just be rumours.
And not that it matters. CNC machines in Korea work just the same as those in America, nothing "boutique" about that.
Someone in this thread said "lifestyle", and it's just that, in my opinion. The brand name is an American icon, and just like other icons, such as Harley Davidson, Maglite, Zippo (up-to-date quality of those?), they market the name, nothing else. There's is no quality question involved, people still buy the name, nonetheless. The guitars are not made by luthiers but machines, the quality is not determined by musicians' demands but by suits in the marketing department.

[kothoma]

Were any 2014 LP Standards among them? I actually looked into starving myself for a year to get one. Of course, by the time they hit Europe, prices are even more ridiculous.

Sorry, not sure. I was so roundabout disappointed that I don't remember the labels.
Yeah, local distributers often calculate 1$ = 1.20 € or more (last check in the real world: 1 $ = 0.7819 €...)

[pickdropper]

Were any 2014 LP Standards among them? I actually looked into starving myself for a year to get one. Of course, by the time they hit Europe, prices are even more ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the inconsistency seems to be across the entire line, so it's usually better to play it first if at all possible.

[m-Kresol]

I don't know if Gibson is making a wise decision here. I have an Epiphone LP which was 440€ and I'm happy with it. I think it's well made, I have found no flaws and it sounds good to me. But, I wasn't looking for something super fancy at that time. I just wanted something better than my squier, I wanted it to be an LP, I wanted humbuckers and I wanted it to be around 300-500€. So, this guitar was exactly what I needed. GI didn't even start about thinking Gibson, because I knew their prices. And actually, I didn't have to. There are so many different manufacturers out there which make decent instruments for a good price - sometimes I wonder how they can even profit and therefore under which circumstances they produce their wares. Getting a cheaper type Gibson might just have let me down in terms of quality, and would have been a waste of money.

If I get a new guitar - which is going to happen - it will not be a Gibson for some reasons, but the main factor here is that for the asked price I rather get a really well made and tested guitar from a manufacturer which isn't make me doubt prior to unpacking if it's really going to be a good guitar.
Sure Gibson has it's place in the guitar world, but for me it's just not worth it atm.

[mremic01]

I imagine a bunch of oncelers in a board room patting each other on the back after a long discussion about innovation and synergy and all kinds of other ridiculous buzz words.

If I were a onceler, I'd ditch the crap.

- Focus on the Standard line of LPs and SGs. Make them the flagship models, as close to the platonically ideal LPs and SGs as possible. We want the same guitars our heroes played. Not newfangled robot BS. An A and B version of the Standards would be nice, since Gibson has never been able to decide on things like the full or half pickguard.

- Get rid of the PCBs in the tone control cavity. And the ceramic tone caps. Films, even cheap ones, should give no cause for complaint, except maybe among the audiophile paper-in-oil cap crowd. How about some 500k pots? 300k has always seemed a bit odd.

- Start cloning some Duncans. Look at what SD is doing right. The Gibson pickups are not bad, but they've made some poor choices about what to use stock and it's hurt their reputation. The 498T is almost perfect for SGs. Something else would make a better stock LP bridge pup. The 490T is a poor match in the neck on both guitars. A '59 clone would be better for SGs, and maybe something a Pearly Gatesish for LPs.

- Bring back the T-Top. Not stock for most models, but available for some. Maybe some PAF variants with a few different Alnicos.

- Keep the Standards consistent over the years. Save the yearly changes for the other models.

- Give the damned things a good setup before they get shipped off to Guitar Center. I have never player a well set up Gibson Les Paul. They always feel awful. The fretboards are always dry. The Epiphones feel much better off the wall.

- Put some actual effort into the lower end models. They're supposed to be just as good as the Standards, but without the fancy features like inlays and binding. Instead, they put a lot less QC into them. That needs to stop.

- Stop riding the Gibson brand name and start making decent instruments that live up to the name.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

^^^^ +1 and this... 

[pickdropper]

 Where are people reading that the Epiphone line is getting discontinued? I can't find any reference to it and it would seem to make no sense from a business perspective.