Scottish Independence: What say ye?

[peterc]

My wife was born in Glasgow and has SUCH an emotional reaction to this. She wants independence at all costs just to satisfy her sense of self-worth. There are a number of factors which she is incredibly pissed off about but 2 come to mind.

2/3 of Scotland is owned by absentee landlords, i.e. the English.

When she was at school in the 70's and 80's, they were not allowed to learn Gaelic, by law. They were not allowed to sing old nationalist songs like 'Flower of Scotland' by law! I am from South Africa and this sounds very familiar.....

[muddyfox]

Again (and I've also had some personal experience with this sort of thing), reality and common sense can often be clouded or just outright dismissed at the faintest whiff of "freedom" and "liberation".

Not saying that's the case here (as I know next to nothing about the matter at hand) but I do see some recurring patterns where folks are getting "gung-ho, consequences be damned".

[raulduke]

My wife was born in Glasgow and has SUCH an emotional reaction to this. She wants independence at all costs just to satisfy her sense of self-worth. There are a number of factors which she is incredibly pissed off about but 2 come to mind.

2/3 of Scotland is owned by absentee landlords, i.e. the English.

When she was at school in the 70's and 80's, they were not allowed to learn Gaelic, by law. They were not allowed to sing old nationalist songs like 'Flower of Scotland' by law! I am from South Africa and this sounds very familiar.....

Really...

Thats crazy 

Your wife must have gone to a pretty strict school I guess (may be a CofE or Catholic school; they can be strange places).

My Mums side of the family are all Scottish (Macleods) and my great grandmother could only speak gaelic; she never learn't english. My Grandad mainly used it for swearing (very convenient as none of us kids could understand) 

There are even gaelic TV and radio stations in Scotland (there have been for as long as I can remember visiting my family there).

[drolo]

Separation between french and dutch seems to be an ongoing discussion here in Belgium too. A couple of years ago the french speaking public TV channel broadcasted a fake news topic anouncing the separation of the two parts of the country. They did not mention it was fake and for a short period of time the whole country was in panic :-)
Being a foreigner, I have no special bond to a party in particular and just keep observing these ramblings with amazement ...

[frankus]

As an English person (which I can prove: "sorry"),
I'd like to add a bit of history, not the Darien Scheme
(an amazing story if you've time). I'd mention earier this year
when the UK government refused Scotland Devo Max (control of everything
except armed forces and foreign affairs - which the SNP prefer) and said
Scotland could have a referendum.

This was probably a cynical largess, the current UK government had a referendun
on proportional representation not so long ago and got what it wanted by asking
people to vote on keeping the "first passed the post" voting method or their own
spin on proportional representation - which everyone agreed wasn't that good.

Scottish politicians are shrewder than the Liberal Democrats (who wanted PR).
If the No vote wins the UK government agreed to a slightly refined version of Devo
Max (which is a start for the SNP). If the Yes vote wins well, it'll be a tough time
for us both (We'll be stuck with the Conservative party because a lot of Labour
support came from Scotland. Frankly I think the Scottish will fair better than anyone
in the UK expects.

British culture is now in a bit of a cul-de-sac - we need to appreciate the values of the
Scottish and Irish people to improve as a society - to my mind.

[frankus]

that doesn't look as much like the opening of Star Wars as I wanted

[drolo]

that doesn't look as much like the opening of Star Wars as I wanted

lol :-)

[Gui113m]

Talking about independence. Did you see what catalans did last thusday? It was impressive!!



Too bad the Spanish government is banning their right to vote.

Amazing pictures: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/12/catalan-independence-referendum-demonstration-in-pictures

[micromegas]

That's a long old story...

I'm Spanish and I'm not against independence, but there are 17 different autonomies in Spain and 4 official languages so, to make it fair, every citizen should have a vote, not only those who live in Cataluña. And you have to take into account that Cataluña is already a separated nation... the problem is bigger than it seems.

[alanp]

Yeah... I suspect that the EU in general will make it as hard as possible for Scotland if it does go independant, on the basis that if they don't, then their member countries will fragment as well (Basque, Cataluna, I'm sure there are other EU countries like this.)

[juansolo]

Edit: sweary post, you have been warned. But this is politics and politicians are corrupt wankers all, so it's required.

I will have to respond to this properly (if I can ever CBA) when I'm not half-pissed, on hotel wi-fi on a shitty, tiny underpowered net book that just crashed after typing about a page of my thinking on this and is lucky not to be smashed into tiny pieces right now...

But generally speaking, as an Englishman, I couldn't care less. If they want it and vote for it, then good for them. Personally I like the Scots and I think it'll be bad all round if they leave the union, but if that's what the majority of them want, then hey, that's the whole point of democracy.

My reservations are that I wouldn't trust that twat Salmond as far as I could throw him. He's out to put himself in the history books and everything else be-damned. Sure it could all work out, but there are so many question marks that they simply won't answer (and fucking should be able to answer so them not answering them would set my spider sense tingling like a bastard) that I have no belief that they wont fuck things up for the Scots (and everyone else) hugely. That's my biggest worry.

Otherwise, which ever way it goes, good luck to them. You think we like the corrupt fuckwits who govern us? Sadly the English don't get the luxury of being able to divorce ourselves from the UK...

But also, whichever way it goes, please shut the fuck up about it when it's all decided.

Love, Juan

[catfud]

For those not in the UK, and all issues and relative importance aside, I need to mention that this has been receiving huge media coverage for many months now and I for one (no doubt others are too) am sick to my back teeth of the subject as a result. Just my tuppence - carry on, as you were...

[thorpy6]

I am just amazed that so many people can be sucked in by another greedy politician. scottish or not. Alex Salmond is a shrewd operator, however he is just as bad as any other politician.- not to be trusted!!!!

[TNblueshawk]

First +1 to Thorpy. I don't care what country/situation we are talking about.

I can't help but think of the old phrase 'be careful what you wish for' or maybe  ' be aware of unintended concequences'. One thing is probably fairly certain is if the vote is a yes and it goes in the shitter later I don't think England will say something like '..sorry mates, come on back and hey you gave it a good go but no hard feelings'.

But as a Southern US'n I have no earthly idea of the nitty gritty details and all the crap that could rain down from all directions. Or maybe it will go great and everyone will agree and share equally and fairly any spoils and debts. I mean with the politicians negotiating what could go wrong 

[culturejam]

But as a Southern US'n

The South shall rise again!!!1!!1!!! 

Used to hear that all the time as a kid. Still waiting on said uprising.