Boss BF-2 Flanger

[lars]

Ahh...the flanger that probably every guitar player has used/owned at some point. It's certainly not your go to flanger, but good enough to get you by in a pinch. It doesn't command the attention given to other flangers like the Electric Mistress or MXR M-117, but that's mainly due to the poor choice of BBD that was thrown into the circuit. Flanging requires a very short minimum delay available, which the SAD1024 could provide, down to .34 microsec ! This is within the range of the .5ms ~ 10ms for a good flanging effect. The MN3207 in the BF-2 can only go down to 2.56ms, so it is better suited for chorus effects, not flanging.
The solution? Remove that MN3207 and change it to an MN3209. Now we're getting somewhere. The MN3209 has a delay range of .64ms ~ 12.8ms, almost begging to be used for flanging, yet I don't know of a single "flanger" pedal that has ever used them, or any guitar pedal ever made for that matter. Bizarre.
Anyway, after the swap out, my BF-2 sounds like a flanger. I also swapped out C30 from 47p to 39p, to set the minimum delay even shorter. It can't even do chorus sounds anymore, because it's not supposed to! That metallic, almost laughable boingy sound it used to make when you set the rate and regen to max is gone. Now it can do those spot-on flanger sounds like early Van Halen, Heart, basically anybody that was using a flanger in the 70's.
I would recommend this mod to anybody that has a BF-2. I bought my MN3209 from "funkward-tech" on Ebay, and it's the legitimate real-deal, and he has a bunch of them.

[drolo]

Thats interesting, I wonder how the Current Lover would sound with one of those ... options ... options ...

[Scruffie]

Thats interesting, I wonder how the Current Lover would sound with one of those ... options ... options ...

The current lover has a clock buffer so you can clock it further than you could a 3207 in the BF-2 anyway, it's already way past the frequencies the Boss reaches and is in the preferred delay range, well assuming you set it up right. So you don't need to change chips or do anything really.

I don't know of a single "flanger" pedal that has ever used them, or any guitar pedal ever made for that matter. Bizarre.

Subdecay Flanger

I bought my MN3209 from "" on Ebay, and it's the legitimate real-deal, and he has a bunch of them.

This is the problem with ebay BBD purchases that has happened countless times... someone always finds a source on ebay, everyone goes in buying them and some people do get real chips, but then the supplier either runs out and subs in fakes or cashes in or whatever happens, the prices spike too due to supply and demand (people were getting real MN3005 for something like $10 and then people ended up paying $40 for fakes) and suddenly, bunch of people with ebay disputes and non-working pedals on their hands, never claim an ebay seller has real deal chips, only testing of each individual chip can prove that.

Sorry for the rant but this always bugs me with people getting caught out.

[lars]

Now that I did some more digging, I actually found a whole series of flangers that were made with the MN3209 here:
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/redson/12/flanger

Thats interesting, I wonder how the Current Lover would sound with one of those ... options ... options ...

I think the Current Lover would actually be a good candidate for the MN3009. With that added buffer you could probably get that thing as close to zero as possible with a vintage BBD, and the MN3009 has a better S/N ratio than the MN3007. If you don't care for the sound, it's not like you would be dropping $75 on an SAD1024. MN3009's are about $5, it's worth a try...

... someone always finds a source on ebay, everyone goes in buying them and some people do get real chips, but then the supplier either runs out and subs in fakes or cashes in or whatever happens, the prices spike too due to supply and demand

As far as sourcing MN3209s from Ebay, I think your chances of getting a fake MN3209 are just about zero in comparison to any of the more popular BBD's. Other than the recent Subdecay Starlight flanger, who has wanted them for anything in the last 20 years (supply/demand/profit)? It costs money to make fakes, and I don't think the demand is ever going to reach that level of risk/profitability for the sellers. With the MN3007, it has reached that level, because everybody uses them for everything, even for designs where it is unnecessary.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

THere is already a Deluxe Electric Mistress project using the R5106 BBD! Also... it is a relatively small parts count and easy build. Plus... the BBD can be had for like $5

[Scruffie]

Now that I did some more digging, I actually found a whole series of flangers that were made with the MN3209 here:
http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/redson/12/flanger

Thats interesting, I wonder how the Current Lover would sound with one of those ... options ... options ...

I think the Current Lover would actually be a good candidate for the MN3009. With that added buffer you could probably get that thing as close to zero as possible with a vintage BBD, and the MN3009 has a better S/N ratio than the MN3007. If you don't care for the sound, it's not like you would be dropping $75 on an SAD1024. MN3009's are about $5, it's worth a try...

... someone always finds a source on ebay, everyone goes in buying them and some people do get real chips, but then the supplier either runs out and subs in fakes or cashes in or whatever happens, the prices spike too due to supply and demand

As far as sourcing MN3209s from Ebay, I think your chances of getting a fake MN3209 are just about zero in comparison to any of the more popular BBD's. Other than the recent Subdecay Starlight flanger, who has wanted them for anything in the last 20 years (supply/demand/profit)? It costs money to make fakes, and I don't think the demand is ever going to reach that level of risk/profitability for the sellers. With the MN3007, it has reached that level, because everybody uses them for everything, even for designs where it is unnecessary.

It costs money? They fake $0.30 J-FETs and transistors, yet there's still a profit in it for them.

I have come across many fake MN3009 already, relabeled MN3007 or DOA. Pedals are not the biggest users of BBDs by a long shot, so there is a market for those BBDs, even if it may not seem so.

What will happen with trying to get a MN3009 to 'near zero' in it is that the sweep will become barely audible, the mistress is not a good candidate for it, let alone the VCO achieving it.

[flanagan0718]

I did a couple mods to my BF-2 a while back...I'll see if I can find the doc. I know I didn't change the IC's or anything. I believe it was just a diode or two and some caps. Still sounded cool tho.

[lars]

I have come across many fake MN3009 already, relabeled MN3007 or DOA. Pedals are not the biggest users of BBDs by a long shot, so there is a market for those BBDs, even if it may not seem so.

That actually proves my point. That wasn't somebody trying to fake an MN3009, that was someone trying to pass it off as an MN3007. But it's still a real MN3009. So really there hasn't been a case yet that I've heard of were someone got a BBD chip that was relabeled to pass it off as an MN3009 or MN3209 . They're not going to relabel a real MN3007 to make a fake MN3009, it wouldn't make sense.

[Scruffie]

I have come across many fake MN3009 already, relabeled MN3007 or DOA. Pedals are not the biggest users of BBDs by a long shot, so there is a market for those BBDs, even if it may not seem so.

That actually proves my point. That wasn't somebody trying to fake an MN3009, that was someone trying to pass it off as an MN3007. But it's still a real MN3009. So really there hasn't been a case yet that I've heard of were someone got a BBD chip that was relabeled to pass it off as an MN3009 or MN3209 . They're not going to relabel a real MN3007 to make a fake MN3009, it wouldn't make sense.

No... an MN3007 relabeled as an MN3009, so they did do it, want me to send you one of them to try out?

In fact, teknoman2 can verify it, I just sent him one as a freebie with some stuff he bought off me as it's still usable as an MN3007.

[lars]

Sorry, misunderstood what you typed and thought you got MN3009s that were re-labeled "MN3007".
I guess we only have to worry when they start re-labeling RC4558P's as vintage BBDs. Maybe that's happened already too...

I still think it would at least be worth trying an MN3009 in the Current Lover. After all, the first Deluxe Electric Mistress reissues used the RD5106...that's a 256-stage BBD, just like the MN3009. The Electric Mistress's delay time range at full depth is .8ms ~ 6ms, and in filter matrix mode from 1ms ~ 10ms. That's exactly in the range the MN3009 works within, at a much lower clock frequency than the MN3007 or MN3207.

[Scruffie]

They actually relabel real 3007/8s too now, god knows why but it's quite clear from the bottom of the chips markings that some are the old white stamp squarer solid black body BBDs, yet all have conforming markings/date codes on the top.

The famous JRC4558 Tube screamer chips are big business so I wouldn't be surprised if they were relabeling NJM & RC parts to look like them, so many fake parts about now.

I'm not complaing that I got 2 real MN3007s at least, personally i'm just using them for testing now as seeing 3009 on a chip that isn't just leads to confusion so i'll never put them in a pedal.

Point being, back to my earlier post, they could easily have been fake and dead so you never know what you're getting on ebay, also, if someone that didn't know the difference, they could easily think they had a real MN3009, it looked legit, but it wasn't. Also, as soon as people start buying them more regularly, those cheaper 3009 or 3204 or whatever prices will go up due to supply and demand and fakes will become more and more common and whatever supply remains, will dry up just as it did with the 3005 and SAD1024, thankfully 3007 were produced until much later and in much greater numbers so supply should last a while... but not forever.

Also reminds me of the relabeled 3008s I had, when testing (I test BBDs in a chorus first for a quick audible confirmation they work before checking they are as printed) I noticed one sounded odd... turned out to be a MN3005 they'd accidentally relabeled 3008, that was a real lucky one.