Flintlock flanger help

[blearyeyes]

I haven't started yet, just got some parts etc. still need to Box Laces double ganger and a few more, well actually about 9 more..ha ha. I'm going to have to force myself to finish boxing before I start on the next one.

[Hangingmonkey]

The doppelgänger is awesome, I built the full sized version and really happy with it. Hopefully I'll get this flanger working by the time you've boxed up your 9

[Scruffie]

Ah I thought you'd sorted it, other than the fact you've measured IC5 upside down your voltages look okay.

So what frequencies can you sweep between roughly, how high or low has it gotten to?

[slacker775]

I've built my flintlock and I think I have it working pretty well. To really be able to kick the tires on it, I need to get it boxed up which is always my Achilles heel.   I'll prob try to get that done in the next week or so.   I was really intimidated going in but it really wasn't that bad of a build overall.

[LaceSensor]

Just throwing it out there I would socket the clock frequency cap and experiment.

I'm not sure if it's accounted for with this pcb but moving from the sad chip to the mn chip as part of the process meant the clock cap needed to be adjusted to get the same range of frequencies when calibrating it.

Worth halving or doubling whatever cap you have there are experimenting with how that affects the freq calibration

[Scruffie]

Just throwing it out there I would socket the clock frequency cap and experiment.

I'm not sure if it's accounted for with this pcb but moving from the sad chip to the mn chip as part of the process meant the clock cap needed to be adjusted to get the same range of frequencies when calibrating it.

Worth halving or doubling whatever cap you have there are experimenting with how that affects the freq calibration

It was accounted for, the moose doc having 39pF which was way too high it was reduced to 27pF which is near enough half the original 51pF value so should effectively double the frequency range and hit the desired frequencies as was tested in the prototype, 25pF would maybe be better but is less common. Halving it wouldn't be a good idea, replacing it with a 22pF on the other hand, may be, depending on the what frequencies he can currently sweep between though, it may be an unrelated issue.

It's possibly an issue of range over max and min frequency so just taking stabs isn't a good process to debug it.

[muddyfox]

which cap would that be? im still on my vacation without access to the board or the builddoc but ill be putting it together rather soon and this would come in handy

[Scruffie]

which cap would that be? im still on my vacation without access to the board or the builddoc but ill be putting it together rather soon and this would come in handy

C26

Enjoy the vacation!

[muddyfox]

thanks Scruffie! will post a build report for sure as this will be my first ever flanger build.

[LaceSensor]

Just throwing it out there I would socket the clock frequency cap and experiment.

I'm not sure if it's accounted for with this pcb but moving from the sad chip to the mn chip as part of the process meant the clock cap needed to be adjusted to get the same range of frequencies when calibrating it.

Worth halving or doubling whatever cap you have there are experimenting with how that affects the freq calibration

It was accounted for, the moose doc having 39pF which was way too high it was reduced to 27pF which is near enough half the original 51pF value so should effectively double the frequency range and hit the desired frequencies as was tested in the prototype, 25pF would maybe be better but is less common. Halving it wouldn't be a good idea, replacing it with a 22pF on the other hand, may be, depending on the what frequencies he can currently sweep between though, it may be an unrelated issue.

It's possibly an issue of range over max and min frequency so just taking stabs isn't a good process to debug it.

I recall even with the moose one I had to experiement with the clock cap think i went 22pF in the end
It was different to the values that were discussed for sure...

[Scruffie]

Just throwing it out there I would socket the clock frequency cap and experiment.

I'm not sure if it's accounted for with this pcb but moving from the sad chip to the mn chip as part of the process meant the clock cap needed to be adjusted to get the same range of frequencies when calibrating it.

Worth halving or doubling whatever cap you have there are experimenting with how that affects the freq calibration

It was accounted for, the moose doc having 39pF which was way too high it was reduced to 27pF which is near enough half the original 51pF value so should effectively double the frequency range and hit the desired frequencies as was tested in the prototype, 25pF would maybe be better but is less common. Halving it wouldn't be a good idea, replacing it with a 22pF on the other hand, may be, depending on the what frequencies he can currently sweep between though, it may be an unrelated issue.

It's possibly an issue of range over max and min frequency so just taking stabs isn't a good process to debug it.

I recall even with the moose one I had to experiement with the clock cap think i went 22pF in the end
It was different to the values that were discussed for sure...

27pF was a compromise, 25.5pF would be the proper value to use but an odd value, 27 was closer than 22pF and worked in prototypes with some range to spare but perhaps on some builds just down to component tolerances (even cap ESR, I am wondering if the Tayda multilayer cap itself might be the issue) it may be a tad too high to get the higher frequencies and we'll put 22pF in the build docs instead... might be a good idea anyway as even if it turns out too low in some cases it's easier to add a small cap in parallel than it is to remove a cap.

It's certainly a build that pushes to the limits so it's not always straight forward.

Something I want to try is halving all the filtering cut offs, with the clock twice the frequency it can be done quite happily, the excess noise added back may go some way to capturing a bit of the old SAD sound (although this A/DA version is actually based on the MN3010 version) which I think is actually where some of the 'magic' comes from... although it will change the overall tone of the pedal of course.

[Hangingmonkey]

Interesting discussion, thanks for continuing to chip in with help and advice. I'll try some cap changes and report back later today if I get a chance (I'm introducing my son to Star Wars this weekend, so priorities are there...)

[Hangingmonkey]

Well, I'm pleased to say that I managed to get the manual pot in the 69.6k-2.6m range (finally). Removed the 27p cap and replaced it with a 10p tayda mlcc (measured 19p), I had a batch of 22p tayda MLCCs which measured 32-35p (oddly more out of range than the 27p mlcc) so I went with the 10p in the end. Was fairly straightforward after that with the trimmer twiddling.  Hopefully this thread will be helpful for anyone else attempting the flintlock. Still got the 1m resistor tacked on the back of the board in parallel. Was thinking about removing it but as it's in range now, thought I'd just leave it there. Onwards to the next stage...

Ps thanks for all the help!

[Scruffie]

Well, I'm pleased to say that I managed to get the manual pot in the 69.6k-2.6m range (finally). Removed the 27p cap and replaced it with a 10p tayda mlcc (measured 19p), I had a batch of 22p tayda MLCCs which measured 32-35p (oddly more out of range than the 27p mlcc) so I went with the 10p in the end. Was fairly straightforward after that with the trimmer twiddling.  Hopefully this thread will be helpful for anyone else attempting the flintlock. Still got the 1m resistor tacked on the back of the board in parallel. Was thinking about removing it but as it's in range now, thought I'd just leave it there. Onwards to the next stage...

Ps thanks for all the help!

Glad you got it there  This being the case changing the build docs 27pF to 22pF might be a good idea.

And christ... 10pF reading 19pF! Can't believe the tolerance is so bad.

You can leave or remove the 1M, wont hurt, but if you remove it you'll have to tweak the trims again.