tone bender MKII clone

[copachino]

i have a tone bender MKII maked with the tonepad layout, and small bear transistors, but as the smallbear layout, the bias Q3 its set at -4.5v, some said the MKII professional were at -7.2v on Q3, but what do you think about it??. i want to hit thwe right MKII pro for a friend who its making a leds  zep tribute

[jtn191]

start there, but then play around with it...try different voltages or transistors and keep what you like. Also try it out with his guitar/amp combo to get it right. Go back to those readings if that sounded the best!

[midwayfair]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to (edit) saturation. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

[copachino]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

[midwayfair]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

Sorry, I meant saturation on Q2 (ground), not cutoff. Twas late.

[copachino]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

Sorry, I meant saturation on Q2 (ground), not cutoff. Twas late.

i see, so you mean to have Q2 about less than 1V, and Q3 about 8v?? that what i heard about the tone bender, but im not so sure why the vintage sounds with more highs, also, how can i make something about the impedance, the pedal alone its great but int the pedalboard sounds like crap

[midwayfair]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

Sorry, I meant saturation on Q2 (ground), not cutoff. Twas late.

i see, so you mean to have Q2 about less than 1V, and Q3 about 8v?? that what i heard about the tone bender, but im not so sure why the vintage sounds with more highs, also, how can i make something about the impedance, the pedal alone its great but int the pedalboard sounds like crap

Q2 is insanely low in vintage units, around 0.2V. Nothing in this fuzz gets anywhere close to "good" biasing.

Like most vintage fuzzes, it's going to sound best right after a guitar, or it's going to sound like a different pedal.

You can't have both without a significant redesign. You could probably add a transformer-based pickup simulator that can be bypassed with a switch if your friend absolutely can't abide putting their fuzz first. Also, Look up my "Last Bearbender" build. It used a FET for Q1. That's the closest you'll get to doing something about the impedance with extremely minimal parts changes, but it doesn't sound like a vintage unit.

[copachino]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

Sorry, I meant saturation on Q2 (ground), not cutoff. Twas late.

i see, so you mean to have Q2 about less than 1V, and Q3 about 8v?? that what i heard about the tone bender, but im not so sure why the vintage sounds with more highs, also, how can i make something about the impedance, the pedal alone its great but int the pedalboard sounds like crap

Q2 is insanely low in vintage units, around 0.2V. Nothing in this fuzz gets anywhere close to "good" biasing.

Like most vintage fuzzes, it's going to sound best right after a guitar, or it's going to sound like a different pedal.

You can't have both without a significant redesign. You could probably add a transformer-based pickup simulator that can be bypassed with a switch if your friend absolutely can't abide putting their fuzz first. Also, Look up my "Last Bearbender" build. It used a FET for Q1. That's the closest you'll get to doing something about the impedance with extremely minimal parts changes, but it doesn't sound like a vintage unit.

the main problem its that may friend has a whammy, and also his pedalboard has a bult-in buffer preamp, so im not so sure how to put it of of the buffer

[midwayfair]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

Sorry, I meant saturation on Q2 (ground), not cutoff. Twas late.

i see, so you mean to have Q2 about less than 1V, and Q3 about 8v?? that what i heard about the tone bender, but im not so sure why the vintage sounds with more highs, also, how can i make something about the impedance, the pedal alone its great but int the pedalboard sounds like crap

Q2 is insanely low in vintage units, around 0.2V. Nothing in this fuzz gets anywhere close to "good" biasing.

Like most vintage fuzzes, it's going to sound best right after a guitar, or it's going to sound like a different pedal.

You can't have both without a significant redesign. You could probably add a transformer-based pickup simulator that can be bypassed with a switch if your friend absolutely can't abide putting their fuzz first. Also, Look up my "Last Bearbender" build. It used a FET for Q1. That's the closest you'll get to doing something about the impedance with extremely minimal parts changes, but it doesn't sound like a vintage unit.

the main problem its that may friend has a whammy, and also his pedalboard has a bult-in buffer preamp, so im not so sure how to put it of of the buffer

You need to tell him this, then. It is electronically impossible to make the pedal sound and act exactly the same after a buffer as before the pickups from the guitar. You can approximate it, similar to how the Skreddy Screwdriver approximates a Fuzz Face, but you can't duplicate it. If your friend is dead-set on having something that sounds and acts like the vintage unit, he's going to have to come up with some way to put a vintage unit reproduction on his board before the whammy and buffer. If he just wants something that sounds like a MKII, then you'll have to design it around the buffer that's on his board and the whammy or add a buffer to the circuit on your own and fiddle with the impedance. Aquataur's "Poker Face" article might give you some help, even though that's about buffering a fuzz face.

[copachino]

i know its kinda crazy, but i was like thinking in tell him to use and A/B looper, A input the buffer board, b will be pickup direct, top get rid of the buffer when hi odesnt want it, i will try voltages thi night to see if a get more close to the real sound cause, now sounds great, but has something different

[copachino]

Keep in mind that even if you prefer a different bias setting from the original that the original's biasing is part of the sound. It's also important to have Q2 biased exceptionally close to cutoff. You're better off using a trimpot on Q2 than on Q3. Anyway, that really high Q3 voltage outputs a more asymmetrical wave than a fuzz face. Again, that's part of the sound.

what i want its the original sounds, by cutoff voltage you mean -9v??, i thought it was Q3 the one close to that voltages, do you know the real voltages??, transistors are in the MKII range, but i think thwe original in the videos sound more tight and a little bright

i see, so you mean to have Q2 about less than 1V, and Q3 about 8v?? that what i heard about the tone bender, but im not so sure why the vintage sounds with more highs, also, how can i make something about the impedance, the pedal alone its great but int the pedalboard sounds like crap

Q2 is insanely low in vintage units, around 0.2V. Nothing in this fuzz gets anywhere close to "good" biasing.

Like most vintage fuzzes, it's going to sound best right after a guitar, or it's going to sound like a different pedal.

You can't have both without a significant redesign. You could probably add a transformer-based pickup simulator that can be bypassed with a switch if your friend absolutely can't abide putting their fuzz first. Also, Look up my "Last Bearbender" build. It used a FET for Q1. That's the closest you'll get to doing something about the impedance with extremely minimal parts changes, but it doesn't sound like a vintage unit.

i have measssure, and here are my voltages on max and min gain

at min:
Q1:-8.38V
Q2:-0.589V
Q3:-7.7v

at max gain:
Q1:-8.38V
Q2:-0.4V
Q3:-7.73v
im using a MBP 3PRR to use -9.38V from it.... still sound like to much bass, i think it has a good sound but i has to much lows, sounds like too dark, and the vintage unit sounds more sharp, perhaps i have to lower even more Q2, and upper Q3??, but im not so sure about Q3, it has already a 2,2Kresistor on it, so i dont want to get damage