Time for a rant.

[alanp]

But the stuff on here is getting beyond a joke.  Impeccable guts, flawless finishes.  It's a real shame there doesn't seem to be a huge market for overbuilt homemade pedals because, well, just because.

I do this for a fun hobby, not for the money (because there isn't any.) That said, my builds are probably among the less reliable

[thesameage]

Lots of great points here, esp about reliability. I don't pretend to be a pro, but I could work on that.

[Willybomb]

Basically, I want to eventually make pedals I can trust to make it through a gig.  It's funny, because my Biyang reverb has started acting up.  Probably the switch, but it's dropping in and out, requiring a kick to get it to pass signal - so I guess even commercial pedals aren't without fault.

What got me to this was looking at the Evel Genius build.  Short of a mechanical/pot failure I can't phantom that the wiring is going to fail - it's just too.damn.neat. and there's no chance of movement AFAIC.  The Hydra Drive is another example.

I think for me, using vero probably means that I'm going to have a certain percentage of spaghetti wiring that can't be completely helped.

But, what should I be looking for in making a pedal giggable, because this is probably my main desire - to build pedals specific to my needs/interests that I can use reliably.

[Leevibe]

I've wanted to strike a good balance between the sonic quality of a pedal and its visual/tactile aesthetic, and when it comes to stuff I plan to sell, toughness is important. I think there are so many instances with pedal building, as with many beautiful designs in other domains, where form follows function.

Here are some examples:

- Pretty, shiny solder joints, generally speaking, tend to be more reliable, good joints.

- Beautifully routed, organized wiring lends itself to quieter circuits (especially in amps) and makes troubleshooting easier.

- For production pedals, screen printing, although a lot of set up work, makes for great looking graphics that are tough and can be reproduced in rapid succession.

- I used to etch all of my boards and I couldn't wait to cross the threshold of having them fabbed because, for production pedals, I was struggling to get my single-sided layouts tight and organized enough for clean builds. I also worried that the solder joints wouldn't be reliable over time. For that matter, that the copper would oxidize over time and compromise current flow.

Fabbed boards allow for 2-sided, tight layouts that make it easier to get wiring pads out to the edge of the board, thus making wiring cleaner, have through-hole plating for robust solder joints, have mask on all of the traces, and don't take any time to make. And I like the way they look way better than the ones I was making by hand. I am no Keefe!

- Envirotex is a new thing for me. Until I discovered it, through this forum, I had given up decals for good. Now there is a way to perfectly protect a decal while providing a flawless, wet-look finish. But the kicker is that it's so foolproof.

I could probably come up with many more examples, but my point is that it's remarkable how often just doing something the right way (more efficient/sturdy/repeatable etc.) can yield more aesthetically pleasing results. There are abundant exceptions to this, like the beautiful etched boards I keep seeing around here, or some of the outrageously whimsical builds.

[wgc]

I'd like to say that I agree with OP, the builds ARE getting better.  Just really amazing stuff.

One of the things that I find continually fascinating is the range of approaches, from hand painted acrylics to chem etches to water slides to lasers. Even the sharpie scrawls. I find myself leaving the site open on my phone for a quick fix.

The thing that I find truly great about the site is the openness of how things were done, tips and tricks, etc.  I think that widespread attitude is primarily the thing that has helped the quality of these builds get to such a high level.  Amazingly, very little of it seems blatantly derivative.

Agree deeply with Lee, Dave, and Jon, but in the end the only thing that matters is who it's for and what they value most. You can have it all, but it won't be quick, easy, or cheap to do.  I have done two gigs with my pedals and made a few for friends who gig with them.  Too many obligations to do regular gigs right now. Anyway the switch and jacks will almost always be the weak links, followed by the pots.  I build for my own enjoyment at the end of a long day, so much depends on my mood at the time.  That said, if I don't like the sound it doesn't go in a box.

In terms of making things more robust, I cut my teeth doing mil spec assembly. I've relaxed much of that these days but if you can find mil spec standards, it doesn't get much more robust than that.  I don't know if you can find mil docs online, but IPC 600 is a good resource too. http://www.ipc.org/toc/ipc-a-600h.pdf

[gordo]

I'm amazed by builds around here, but truthfully, I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of stuff here looks kind of like a bag of assholes like mine.  I really don't care because very little of what I do around here gets any further than my house or pedal board.  That said, it takes a special talent to pull off some of the builds we regularly see around here and I'm very envious of those folks, but it won't slow me down a lick.  I'm an old fart so I think it's easier for me to realize limitations and either conquer them or blow them off.  I've watched so many people around here blossom from newb to pro (Midwayfair is the first to come to mind) to the point where they pretty much define this place.  Don't get into the rut of "whoa is me" just because it takes you a month to trouble shoot and looks like the dogs breakfast.  If it works, and you like it, it IS.  No apologies.  We do this for ourselves, and it would be nice to impress other people with our craftiness but it not always going to happen and quite frankly might never happen.  I build for an audience of one, and from time to time I'm blown away.

[selfdestroyer]

I feel we I benefit form other member's builds getting better. It causes me to ask more question and to push myself to better my craft. I am still a "build it by the numbers" kind of person and I am slowly learning how to make the proper changes to circuits to "better" them to my ears. I only have a few people that have my pedals in the outside world that use them on stage but nothing consistent. I build for myself and when friends come over and they love something, I either give them mine as an excuse to make another one or build them one. Dose't happen that often. I made a pedal for this doom band a few months ago and the only thing different from my normal builds was I used a better 3PDT from Smallbear just for reliability.

I remember back a bit ago there was a post about esthetics and how important they were. I remember someone liking it to how you feel driving your car just after you got it detailed. Sometime you feel like its actually driving better. I love a cool/pretty/freakishly awesome looking pedal and I have been known to build a pedal and fall in love with it and rebox it again in a better enclosure. Example of this is a Pharaoh fuzz, I did the painted enclosure with stamped labeling and I loved it. After a month of playing it I wanted it to stay on my board so I decided to etch up an enclosure for it just so it would look as cool as it sounded.

I do believe most of the builds here can be giged with, its all about how hard you are on your pedals. I love the look of jumping across the stage to turn on that boosted tone bender with a foot in form of a thunderbolt... looks so cool but might as well plan on replacing switches. Hell, I had to replace switched in 2 rats and a DL4 and I am not ruff on my stuff at all. Just like in anything else in life... if there are moving parts.. it can be broke.

Cody

[juansolo]

Juan, you go the momentary / relay route?

I use Josh's Optotron and Alpha DPDT stomps. Only ever had one failure vs loads of 3PDT fails.

[juansolo]

The thing that I find truly great about the site is the openness of how things were done, tips and tricks, etc.  I think that widespread attitude is primarily the thing that has helped the quality of these builds get to such a high level.  Amazingly, very little of it seems blatantly derivative.

I think because here we're all about the hobby and the craft. The more you share, the more others will want to share and the more ideas we get, the better and more creative we all become. I have been inspired by many people on here and have been helped more times than I can remember. It's a community that thrives on that interaction and attitude.

[Muadzin]

Also, most people do not stomp on their amps or kick them around stage.

I think you'll find that if you do that even with the socalled commercially rugged pedals you can break them. Especially if you start kicking them around. Analogmike has a whole page of pics of tubescreamer that have been stomped to death. That's why pedal boards were invented. And you don't see a lot of touring musicians without one. And if they don't chances are even smaller they're of the 'I get so excited I start kicking my stuff around' variety.

2/3rds of my pedalboards consists of stuff I've built, including the most critical parts , the loopers and the patchbays, and they haven't failed me to a greater degree then the commercial pedals. Including the built as a tank Boss pedals. I've taken my pedals on the road, in the backs of trailers, in the holds of aircraft. I do not worry about my pedals unless they were finicky from the start. In my experience patch cables, even commercial ones, are far more prone to become problematic. Almost every time I had problems on the road it turned out to be a patch cable that went rogue. George L cables sound great in my opinion, but they should never be sold without those rubber caps. Otherwise you're guaranteed that if you experience a problem it's because the screw on the plug became loose.

[slacker775]

The thing that I find truly great about the site is the openness of how things were done, tips and tricks, etc.  I think that widespread attitude is primarily the thing that has helped the quality of these builds get to such a high level.  Amazingly, very little of it seems blatantly derivative.

I think because here we're all about the hobby and the craft. The more you share, the more others will want to share and the more ideas we get, the better and more creative we all become. I have been inspired by many people on here and have been helped more times than I can remember. It's a community that thrives on that interaction and attitude.

Having been involved in the open source software world for many years, this is very much the same mentality.   The reality is that everything is building off techniques that came before and a bit of experimentation that leads to new developments.  Everybody is standing on the shoulders of the giants that came before them.

I always hate when people/companies think that DIYers are just leeches.  Sure there are some in any crowd but what I've certainly learned in my few years is that by having built just about every kind of effect available in the DIY community that I can see the difference between a unicorn tear filled $300 BMP clone vs actually innovate stuff that some of the commercial companies are putting out.

[flanagan0718]

I feel we I benefit form other member's builds getting better. It causes me to ask more question and to push myself to better my craft. I am still a "build it by the numbers" kind of person and I am slowly learning how to make the proper changes to circuits to "better" them to my ears. I only have a few people that have my pedals in the outside world that use them on stage but nothing consistent. I build for myself and when friends come over and they love something, I either give them mine as an excuse to make another one or build them one. Dose't happen that often. I made a pedal for this doom band a few months ago and the only thing different from my normal builds was I used a better 3PDT from Smallbear just for reliability.

I remember back a bit ago there was a post about esthetics and how important they were. I remember someone liking it to how you feel driving your car just after you got it detailed. Sometime you feel like its actually driving better. I love a cool/pretty/freakishly awesome looking pedal and I have been known to build a pedal and fall in love with it and rebox it again in a better enclosure. Example of this is a Pharaoh fuzz, I did the painted enclosure with stamped labeling and I loved it. After a month of playing it I wanted it to stay on my board so I decided to etch up an enclosure for it just so it would look as cool as it sounded.

I do believe most of the builds here can be giged with, its all about how hard you are on your pedals. I love the look of jumping across the stage to turn on that boosted tone bender with a foot in form of a thunderbolt... looks so cool but might as well plan on replacing switches. Hell, I had to replace switched in 2 rats and a DL4 and I am not ruff on my stuff at all. Just like in anything else in life... if there are moving parts.. it can be broke.

Cody

+1 on this Cody! I see the builds that most of you do (you included with the amazing etch jobs you do) and I say to myself "man, that looks awesome, I  N E E D  to learn how its done! I've done many switch replacements/upgrades. one of the most common is the Line 6 Modeler pedals (DL4, MM4, FM4, etc). I even had a friend need a new switch in a vintage MXR Dist+. That was a Carling DPDT switch, one of the more reliable ones (also lasted 30 years so i guess it is). But, like you said, if it has moving parts it WILL fail...PERIOD. Might not happen for 30 years but it will eventually. Reliability is a relative term, warranty/serviceability is a different story all together.
    Aesthetics are good and all but most people, (the ones that but commercial pedals) would loose their shit over what we do here! Look at the "graphics" on the commercial pedals, very plain and often one, maybe, two colors. For example MXR, Boss, Way Huge, MXR Customs and even Keeley and Mad Professor. I did a Chorus pedal for a friend a while back and it came out...well...not great aesthetically, I thought. I was also comparing it to some of the builds here. I recently heard from him. He just got back from tour and he said every night some one asked him about it. They would always say it was one of the cooler looking pedals they've seen. Now, I'm not tooting my own horn, I though it looked kind of crappy but most of the people that buy pedals at GC or Sam Ash or what have you would go apesh*t for the stuff we do here. Now thats not to say the simple graphics are under rated. Just saying that what you might think is a polished turd, is definitely going to be cool in someones eyes.

[GrindCustoms]

Refering to the main points brought by the OP, wich is a really nice subject by the way....

Those builts/builders that are considered by some as being «over the top», aesthicaly and the innards, are probably for the most parts, more reliable builts than LOTS of massive produced pedals are those sold for shit loads of money by Booteekers.

If someone builts a pedal that he finds too nice to stomp on it... well.. that's a problem, because to me, pedal are meant to be used, it's all about their functionality to me.

I'd say that an average of 95% of what i build are commissioned builts and that since i've started to build pedals 3 years ago. The second pedal i built was for a friend that paid me for it, a simple JFET boost... and beleive me, the interior was as shitty as it can get! LOL But it still on his board and running strong, guy plays in 3 band, gigs at least 2 time a week, not counting the rehearsal. So? Do tidy wring makes more reliable pedals? I would'nt say yes! Long as there a good mechanical connection and good solder joints it will last forever.. no matter if you put the circuit board in a baggy and have hot glue all over the place, it's all about the connections.

Most of the guys who now built uBer tidy builts... where'nt building like that at first, most of those guys have 50 to 100 builts done at least.... At some point you need to challenge yourself and despite all the effort put in, a stompbox remains a stompbox, so you push yourself at making cleaner builts, better component choice, work the aesthetic of your builts.... it's evolution over the earlier acquired bases. Wich will turn out in an uncontrollable OCD for some!

Exposed wires, Vero, PTP.... if made correctly there's not more issue that can happen than with a PCB, it's all about the care put in the craft.

All of my tube pedal builts are either PTP on blank boards or litterally PTP, i have not a single doubt about their reliability through the years and i would gig them any time with no worries at all. I have some piece of equipement that are 60+years old and are still running strong... on the other hand i have recent Boss or MXR pedals that don't work and everything is «securely» mounted on a pcb.... find the error!

Conclusion, i try to make my builts as reliable as possible and be neat inside so my customers when they open it up after they played it, completely understand why i ask the X amount for the X pedal. So they have the feeling that they bought something that worth every penny of their hard earned money.

I also do it to satisfy my personnal need to perform and push my boundaries further.

All of this is pretty vague and repetitive... sorry.

[jkokura]

Pedals can be functional Art, but as Rej says, it's still gotta be functional.

Pretty much all the pedals I build are meant to be used, gigged, whatever. That means you have to have a high standard of build quality. However, it's worth it, because they're functional. I've got pedals I built 4 years ago that I still use every week, and they've never needed servicing.

Jacob

[sonarchotic]

I do believe most of the builds here can be giged with, its all about how hard you are on your pedals. I love the look of jumping across the stage to turn on that boosted tone bender with a foot in form of a thunderbolt... looks so cool but might as well plan on replacing switches. Hell, I had to replace switched in 2 rats and a DL4 and I am not ruff on my stuff at all. Just like in anything else in life... if there are moving parts.. it can be broke.

Cody

I agree. I toured for years in a very hyperactive band that played for hyperactive crowds. I tried using pedals, mostly commercial and everything was destroyed and more a pia than they were worth. Now a days I could use any well built pedal and have no problem. Reliability is relative. Gigable is relative. The big manufactures may use cast stand offs with there boards screwed in securely but then they use cheap switches, knobs and jacks. A small builder could probably do even better. I think the experience of what breaks over time will teach you how to do it better in the future or what is unavoidable when dealing with spazz musicians
I am in awe of people who can do super neat wiring. I don't however think its necessary to build a great pedal though I understand it's importance in certain places.  I am always striving to improve in this area though. More for personal gratification and less waiste than anything else.
Ultimately, if someone pays you for a pedal build you should try your best to give them their money's worth. If they body slammed your pedal, fix it for a fee. If your soldering sucked then fix it for free and do better in the future.
As far as the awesome esthetic of the stuff we see around here I'll be the first to say "I FREAKING LOVE MAKING THE BOX LOOK COOL!!!"
Sound quality is a tough one as it goes into a lot of opinion once you get rid of the obvious things like unwanted noise. Hence all the knobs on everything. I have never used the tone knob on a guitar but it's there for the people who do. Building a reliable pedal is something I think most of the folks here can do. Even if it is horribly good looking