Help, reselling

[LaceSensor]

Hi all

I am in a dilemma
I make a sell the occasional pedal, and sometimes sell them via eBay which I am sure a lot of you also do.
Now, I sold a Lovetone Flanger pedal to a due in Germany a few months ago.
He loved it, but then decided he could cop most of the sounds in software (he was a synth guy).
So, he (re)sells it on eBay to a guy in Japan.

I get an email today basically saying the guy in Japan things the outputs arent balanced, the stereo/mono switch doesnt work, the overall volume is low, and the bypass isnt able to produce equal volume.

Now, aside from the technicalities of how the lovetone flanger works which I might detail after, where would any of you stand on this?
The pedal worked great when I sold it, when the first buyer received it, and now some dude half the world away has issues.

Im tempted to wash my hands of this because I wont be responsible for shipping costs like that...
The only thing I can think is that it got damaged in the postal process.
On my original eBay link I said I would fix any genuine problems for 1 year (stuff like a broken 3PDT etc)

Your thoughts?

Note: the lovetone flanger is pseudo stereo, and has summed outputs to mono. The overall volume of the effect is set by an input gain control which acts in "bypass" and during operation as the pedal is "buffered bypass" and engaging the time (flanger) or space (tremolo) only kicks those in whilst the pedal remains "on" the whole time.

[juansolo]

Two options. Ignore him completely or explain the following:

The pedal worked when you sold it. If he wants to return it to you for service/repair, he'll need to cover return postage as you didn't sell it to him, and are doing the work out of the goodness of your heart.

Explain that you've got an original Lovetone pedal (and they're odd) and if the clone is found to be operating as per that, then there's nothing wrong with it.

If he doesn't accept these terms, then tough titty.

[juansolo]

I'm tolerant to a degree.

The bloke who bought the Dumberoid on eBay claims it's broken and whines. Now I know it didn't and it's most likely a shitty PSU. But he's sent a video and demonstrating the whining, so we've told him to send it back and we'll refund if there's nothing wrong with it, or repair if there is.

That was well over a month ago and counting. Still not got it back... The longer I wait, the less helpful I'm inclined to be. It really doesn't take 10 mins and £3.90 to shove it in a box and send it back.

Sometimes they really don't help themselves. Do they expect me to pick it up? Arrange a courier? Just send the thing back already.

[raulduke]

Two options. Ignore him completely or explain the following:

The pedal worked when you sold it. If he wants to return it to you for service/repair, he'll need to cover return postage as you didn't sell it to him, and are doing the work out of the goodness of your heart.

I agree; get him to agree to cover carriage both ways, and also pay for any repairs required.

He is not the original owner, so if he is a reasonable person, then he should understand....

[LaceSensor]

Hi

I should say that the email came from the guy in Germany reiterating the complaint of the guy in Japan. So no direct contact with the guy in Japan at all.

I think this can get messy quite fast.
I think the Japanese guy would want a refund from the German dude, and thats totally their business, nothing to do with me.
Once the owner (german guy) gets it back if he wants me to check it out he can pay to post it to me.
If there is a problem with it, Ill fix it and pay return postage. If not, he needs to pay shipping and deal with the fact that lovetone pedals are esoteric?!

PArt of the issue here is I get the impression the Japanese guy either owns or owned a real Lovetone, and now thinks the clone isnt 100% acting the same way. Its possible; component tolerances, variance in the lovetone designs (the flanger had a factory mod applied at some point, I can only compare to my pedal which HAS the mod, and the clones which were designed to include it also).

[juansolo]

In that case, the German and Japanese guy need to sort it out. Then the German guy needs to decide if the pedal is borked or not and deal with you.

It's probably buyers remorse on behalf of the Japanese guy and he's looking for an out/refund. Now if he's actually vandalised the pedal to get it (which if it is a broken pedal and the German guy sends it back to you) it'll get messy.

You should deal with the German and let him decide what to do in this case. Offer your services to repair it if he gets it back and it's borked.

Once the owner (german guy) gets it back if he wants me to check it out he can pay to post it to me.
If there is a problem with it, Ill fix it and pay return postage. If not, he needs to pay shipping and deal with the fact that lovetone pedals are esoteric?!

This is exactly how you have to be. That's my policy down to a 'T'.

PArt of the issue here is I get the impression the Japanese guy either owns or owned a real Lovetone, and now thinks the clone isnt 100% acting the same way. Its possible; component tolerances, variance in the lovetone designs (the flanger had a factory mod applied at some point, I can only compare to my pedal which HAS the mod, and the clones which were designed to include it also).

All you can do is compare it to yours and explain that, if it performs as per yours, the pedal is fine.

[juansolo]

This is all why I never want to go into business selling pedals (other than the fact I couldn't figure out a way of doing it that would make enough money to live on). Dealing with people can be a complete pain in the arse.

[hoodoo]

.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Ian,

Sounds to me like your situation is definitely correctable.

First of all... It sounds to me like the guy in Japan does not know how to use it! Sorry but, ALL of the Flangers I built had more than enough out put on tap. I always thought that the I/P control gave you way more than unity output! I am also guessing that the guy in Japan does not know that the Mono/Stereo switch ONLY WORKS IN BYPASS!

Here is what I suggest you do:

- Immediately ammend any generic eBay sales tags (cut-n-pastes that you put on every sale) to include that you only guarantee your work to the 1st purchaser. Resales are the responsibility of the NEW seller
- Send a copy of the ??FLanger Manual to the German dude to forward to the Japannese dude. It might be that easy and it just takes a little reading for him to find out how to use it!
- If none of that works, I would go with what Juan says.... Have the German guy get the pedal back from Japan and then pay to send it to you for repairs.

[flanagan0718]

This is all good advice. This is my $0.02. I would offer to help the dude#2 (guy in japan) out of the kindness of my heart. He has to pay for shipping and a bench fee if there is nothing wrong with the pedal. If there is a failure then I would cover the repair and 1/2 of the shipping (once again kindness). I personally feel as though that dude#1 (Germany) has assumed all responsibility for the unit. After all, he resold it instead of coming to you with this issue after he got it. If he had reported his findings to you then this might not have happened.

Example: I buy a book from a guy on ebay. I read the book but don't like it. I can't simply the go to the author and ask them for a re-write. Nor can I have the guy I bought it from contact you for the re-write.

I, personally, would offer to help but inform both parties that this would be a "repair" due to the fact  the pedal was not directly sold by you to dude#2. If there is a functional issue with the pedal then repairs will be covered this once and the return shipment will be as well. If not, there will be a bench / diagnostic fee and all shipping is to be covered by the owner of the pedal. I would also remind both, dude#1 and dude#2, that you are doing this as a "good faith" repair in hopes that it might further business with them in the future.

Just my thoughts.
-Mike-

[LaceSensor]

TBH I am not touching the guy in Japan at all. not my responsibility. But I understand the sentiment.

[pickdropper]

Is it your responsibility to fix it?  Probably not.  Could it hurt your ability to sell pedals in the future if the buyer decides he is unhappy with the way you handle it?  Possibly.  If it's a few months old, I think there is likely going to be an expectation that some level of service would be available.  It's reasonable to restrict that service to the original purchaser.

Are the outputs balanced in the original Lovetone?  Were yours wired that way?  It seems like that would be an obvious thing that could be verified.

As far as the output level, that's a trickier one as there certainly can be some variability between builds.  It sounds like the Japanese buyer is looking for an exact repro of the one he has played through, which may or may not be realistic.

I think the suggestion of being willing to fix it and charge a bench fee is reasonable.  However, if the Japanese buyer sets a target that is a bit vague (like the level) then you might have a tough time making him happy.

[LaceSensor]

Im happy to deal with the original buyer tbh, and if it was a guy in the UK who I could communicate effectively with I might even deal with the 3rd party, but not half way round the globe. The Shipping cost alone is nuts, and its clear from the email that was sent to me that the Japanese buy doesnt have the ability to propoerly communicate his findings with the pedal. he said to the german dude he just wants a refund anyway...

so first is for the german guy to sort his ebay issue out, then I will be happy to check the pedal out for him.

[LaceSensor]

Are the outputs balanced in the original Lovetone?  Were yours wired that way?  It seems like that would be an obvious thing that could be verified.

As far as the output level, that's a trickier one as there certainly can be some variability between builds.  It sounds like the Japanese buyer is looking for an exact repro of the one he has played through, which may or may not be realistic.

Outputs in the original the "time" out is left floating, but I found that added ground loop hum, so jumpered the grounds. It was thoroughly tested, and I did the same to my original lovetone.

Regards output level, thats set by the Input Gain knob, which acts globally in bypass also, and it (as Gov stated) always goes above "unity" (if you had the pedal in a true bypass loop for example, you could jump your levels with it). Now, its likely that the IP gain knob has some variabiltiy as pots vary 20% based on the position in rotation relative to resistance and therefore output, so that might be part of th japanese guys greivance.

anyway, worst case, german guy gets it back (his prerogative) sends to me, its genuinely fucked in which case I can fix it, or I can offer the german guy a pro-rata refund and sell it to any number of other people who solicit me asking for ?flanger clones :S

[GermanCdn]

Truthfully, I think you are overextending yourself on this one.  Buyer A purchases from you, loves it, then relists it after a reasonable amount of time when you could assume he used it and had no issues with it.  You have no control over what he said/promised when he relisted it, nor what he asked for it.  Sells it, maybe at a profit, maybe with unrealistic expectations.  Buyer B isn't wholly happy with it, for whatever the real reason is (maybe he doesn't understand how it works, maybe it's buyers remorse, maybe his wife gave him crap for buying another pedal, who knows).  Safe bet, his unhappiness has nothing to do directly with you.