MN3005 vs V3205

[Muadzin]

It probably goes without saying that the MN3005 is the BBD delay chip to have in one's analog delay. Too bad you will probably find gold at the end of a rainbow together with mystical unicorns first before getting some affordable and reliable MN3005's. That leaves only the V3205. Which brings me to the question, how does it compare to the MN3005? Oddly enough Madbean's own build guides seem to differ. The Aquaboy guide seems to scoff at the V3205, calling it the worst of the bunch and seems to prefer the shorter delay timed B3208 instead. The old Dirtbag build guide on the other hand seems to say that the difference is negligible.

So how does the V3205 compare to the MN3005? Is it a difference worth spending 10x as much for, or is it like the original WH-1 whammy and the WH-4 re-issue, which I found to be perfectly fine to the original, as I own both of them. If you had to put an honest percentage on them, how much would the V3205 get me to the tone of the MN3005?

[Scruffie]

*Waits for flood of hate against the v3205*

The v3205 is okay, a lot of people swear against them with a passion, some find them fine though, they do the same job but don't have the headroom basically, the only way to know if you'll like them is to try.

A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.

Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.

Be careful where you get your v3205 from though, smallbear had to send a batch they received back as they wouldn't bias correctly so distorted too early (this may explain some of the hate as some of those chips had gone out and other suppliers may not be as fussy over their quality).

[twin1965]

I built a Dirtbag with v3205's and it's true that they don't sound 'pristine'. But analogue delays are not supposed to sound pristine anyway! For that you get a digital one. Having said that, you can definitely hear slight distortion which is not evident when using an MN3005.

I actually don't mind it as my v3205's don't distort as much as other people have said. Feeding a distorted/fuzz/overdrive signal masks the noise anyway. I can see some people getting really annoyed with this but I'm not too bothered as I don't like my guitar signal to be too clean.

MN3005's are now really expensive. I got a quote recently for £39.99 each. That's not including VAT or delivery! Like it's been said before there are some incredible PT2399 delays out there. I use the Multiplex Echo Machine and it's fantastic. So is the Zero Point from Madbean and many others.

[midwayfair]

Keeping in mind that I can't get any bucket brigade device to function on a PCB (but they work just fine on the breadboard!):

Personally, I'd sooner use a PT2399 design for anything that required two delay chips. The fidelity is not appreciably different.

Second, my favorite analog delay, the Malekko 616, uses the cool audio chips, and I haven't removed it from my gigging board since I got it regardless of what I build. I like it better than the deluxe memory man I used to have. So obviously the cool audio chips are capable of sounding really good even at 600ms.

[peAk]

Guys, I just spent $100 on here yesterday for (2) MN3005

Lets get some positive MN3005 posts going too, please

I was going to build my aquaboy deluxe with MN3008s but I told myself if I could find some 3005s I would build it with that.

[Stomptown]

Keeping in mind that I can't get any bucket brigade device to function on a PCB (but they work just fine on the breadboard!):

Personally, I'd sooner use a PT2399 design for anything that required two delay chips. The fidelity is not appreciably different.

Second, my favorite analog delay, the Malekko 616, uses the cool audio chips, and I haven't removed it from my gigging board since I got it regardless of what I build. I like it better than the deluxe memory man I used to have. So obviously the cool audio chips are capable of sounding really good even at 600ms.

I too prefer the PT2399 for longer delay times. Although I regret selling one of my two MN3005s, I don't regret taking it out of my aquaboy and sticking with 300ms like the original design. The MN3005 at 300ms or less in the aquaboy sounds sweet; perfect for slapback delay. I've yet to build a V3205 so I can't comment there but I will probably build one just so I can see for myself if it is all hype (I run my Aquaboy at 9V anyway since I didn't notice an appreciable difference at 15V)...

[jkokura]

I don't know if someone mentioned this, but the real comparison isn't really MN3005 and V3205, because one is a clone of a MN3205, which is different. I think you can still find MN3205 chips, but like the 3005s, they're rare and expensive.

Jacob

[Morgan]

I agree with Scruffie that a lot of the sound is in the ear of the beholder. If you're chasing a certain sound though, I haven't found a V3205 project yet that delivers what I consider to be a good analog delay sound.

I have a BYOC Beta version analog delay kit, a production version, I have had my hands on a few more of those to help the builders get them working, and I built a 1st version Dirtbag Deluxe with V3205s and all the mods. None of them sounded particularly close to what I remember my old analog delays sounding like (granted, I comparing real time sounds to my hazy memory  ).

Actually though, I think the current version BYOC analog delay sounds perfectly fine in short mode, where only one V3205 is used. But I don't care for the sound of 4 of them in series in long mode, and didn't like 2 of them in series in the Dirtbag. They certainly have the warmth, but just don't have the fidelity that the old pedals did. Also, I had a 1st version aquaboy with a MN3005 (that one that was nearly a straight pcb clone of the aquapuss) and it kicked the crap out of the BYOC in short mode (nearly identical circuits). So, it seemed to me that one V3205 sounds pretty good, but still not as good as it could be.

I finally bit the bullet and got a hold of a couple 3005s for my dirtbag deluxe; and there's that glorious sound I remember so fondly!  To me, it sounds just barely incrementally better than my favorite PT2399 delay, which cost about half the cash to build. Very happy camper now, but I think I've learned my lesson with analog delays at this point.

So anyway, I think that if you're chasing a certain sound, say the sound of an old Deluxe Memory Man, I don't think that using V3205s really gets you there.  But still, if you really want that sound, like Madbean alludes to in the Dirtbag build docs, you might spend around $150 on a dirtbag build with MN3005s, but that is still half the cash of a good vintage unit, and the build will be way smaller and work off a normal 9v tap. That's still a really good deal.

Also, like Scruffie said, there are plenty of guys who perfectly enjoy the sound of the V3205 chips. I moderate the delay & modulation subforums over at BYOC and builders express how much they love that analog delay all the time. So, it really does depend on what you're looking for. 

[culturejam]

Second, my favorite analog delay, the Malekko 616, uses the cool audio chips, and I haven't removed it from my gigging board since I got it regardless of what I build. I like it better than the deluxe memory man I used to have.

I had a 616 as well. I actually did not care for the sound of it, and far prefer my DMM. But it could have been a wonky batch of chips in the 616. I also used to have the Malekko E300, and it sounded stellar.

[muehring]

I have build two aquaboy deluxes with the cool audio chips and I think they sound great at lower volumes, but I prefer my byoc analog delay in a band setting.  The byoc analog delay I have has different chips.  I'm not sure what they are, but they're not v3205s, maybe b3208s.  That's my main delay now because it's super long and I like the slapback and long sounds.  I also have a yamaha e1010 analog delay with 4 MN3005s.  The delay is much less dirty than my other analog delays and the delay time isn't very long.  I might harvest some MN3005s out of there and try a diy delay with the MN3005s.

[Scruffie]

I have build two aquaboy deluxes with the cool audio chips and I think they sound great at lower volumes, but I prefer my byoc analog delay in a band setting.  The byoc analog delay I have has different chips.  I'm not sure what they are, but they're not v3205s, maybe b3208s.  That's my main delay now because it's super long and I like the slapback and long sounds.  I also have a yamaha e1010 analog delay with 4 MN3005s.  The delay is much less dirty than my other analog delays and the delay time isn't very long.  I might harvest some MN3005s out of there and try a diy delay with the MN3005s.

The Yamaha unit is probably using the 3005s for the actual spec'd max delay time of 204.8mS then rather than the 300 we try and pull out of them if it's quite clean and has quite a short delay.

Depending on if the filtering can take it, might be fun to rather than harvest the 3005s out of it just extend the max delay by adjusting the clock so you can have 1.2s delays out of it.

Some of what's said here seems to suggest that v3205s just don't stack well, when they first came out, people commented that the output of them was much hotter than that of MN3205s, so I wonder if just reducing the source follower/output pull up resistors on them might help in the dual delay builds as it would reduce each chips gain.

[alanp]

A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.

Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.

If you did do a delay PCB specifically designed for the v3205d, I'd buy it

To the OP -- my experience was that the v3205d began to distort (quite badly) after only halfway on the Level knob on the Dirtbag. MN3008 (half the time of MN3005), OTOH, was pristine even when Level was maxed out.

[Scruffie]

A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.

Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.

If you did do a delay PCB specifically designed for the v3205d, I'd buy it

I think it'd be hard to change peoples minds and get them on board with it, otherwise i'd do it.

[lincolnic]

A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.

Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.

If you did do a delay PCB specifically designed for the v3205d, I'd buy it

I think it'd be hard to change peoples minds and get them on board with it, otherwise i'd do it.

I dunno - given how hard it is to find MN3005s or MN3205s, I could see something like this being fairly popular.

[Scruffie]

What would people want? Just an upgraded DM-2 alike (with dual BBDs) then or... what? Adding extra circuitry to a Memory Man would be a challenge to have it fit a 1590BB still... although with SIP OpAmps perhaps a possibility. Or just an entirely 'new' delay circuit.

The Stereo memory man gets overlooked a lot... that could be a good one to spice up.