Sweetwater Welcomes JHS Pedals

[selfdestroyer]

Good thing or bad thing? Just wanted to see some builders thoughts on this.

Cody

[culturejam]

It's good for JHS. 

[rullywowr]

I think the reviews on the net say it all.

[selfdestroyer]

Don't get me wrong, I know all the madness about JHS and love following the drama. It has taught me to NEVER take credit for any thing I did not build for scratch and always appreciate your beginnings.

I was just surprised that Sweetwater was going to start carrying their stuff,

Cody

[rullywowr]

I suppose it's one thing to come out and say that this pedal is inspired or based on xyz pedal (EHX Soul Food) for example. It's another thing entirely to (allegedly) duplicate an existing circuit (even down to the layout and concept) and claim it as your own original idea. 

It hits home especially for us DIYers when the real creator(s) of a copped circuit gives so much to the community so graciously.

I suppose the business terms were favorable for both parties involved.

[jtn191]

JHS and Analog Man are mostly hype. They do what we do and got some famous people to really like them.

[micromegas]

JHS and Analog Man are mostly hype. They do what we do and got some famous people to really like them.

I don't think they do exactly the same we do. I've seen more creativity & tweaking here during a month than both of them had achieved over the years.

Also, if I do sell a clone to someone (a friend or a friend of a friend mostly) I do not take the credit for the design and surround it with hype.

[midwayfair]

JHS and Analog Man are mostly hype.

These two companies aren't remotely comparable in their methods, execution, reputation, or craft. AnalogMike spent years tracing vintage circuits on his own  before there was an internet to do the work for him -- and he in fact contributed to discussion in the DIY community in the early years of the internet and reverse engineered some rare vintage pieces before the DIY community jumped on them and traces his version. Mike also spent decades running a gear shop with excellent customer service. And yeah, he made a big stink about people tracing and copying the King of Tone (and revealing it to be a tweaked bluesbreaker), but jeez, his ad copy has never claimed that it was an original circuit ... in fact, it implied that it was based on a tube screamer, which would have made it even MORE common. And AnalogMan's prices are mostly pretty darned fair for boutique gear with a waiting list a mile long, a reputation to kill for, and outstanding resale value. The modified clones Analogman sells are all extinct circuits -- for years he was the only way to get a San Ash Fuzz Boxx (Astrotone), Ross Compressor (Mike also developed the attack control that has been added to many versions of this), CE-2, and even Orange Squeezer (I think he was the first one to start cloning them). Worth noting: AnalogMan will modify your tube screamer but he doesn't manufacture one. He must be the only long-time running boutique that doesn't bother manufacturing tube screamers. (And though I'm sure you could argue that it's a lot more profitable to modify them, that's not really the point.) The insides of an AnalogMan pedal have ALWAYS looked excellent -- it didn't take pictures on the internet of shabby work or excuses about "getting too many orders" to make that happen.

AnalogMan, along with a couple other companies, were basically the only game in town for boutique builders for a long time going back into the 1980s. They "got some famous people to like them" because they were the only alternative to off-the-shelf pedals -- which were not in a great place at the time, either, because they didn't have much substantial competition (though Boss was still making excellent stuff, of course) -- and the only ways to get certain pieces of highly coveted vintage circuits, like germanium fuzz faces and some other period-correct extinct pedals. He also knew how to fix the real units those people were using when they broke. Saying that AnalogMan does "what we do" is ignoring how horrendously difficult this hobby would have been before everything was a forum search away. I know I haven't been in this as long as many people on this forum (just over two years now), but I can remember what it was like to do research on even well-known topics before the internet. I can't imagine how difficult it was for a hobby with such esoteric appeal, few print publications, and maybe five people in a hundred mile radius who have the least interest in thinking about it.

[gtr2]

Well stated Jon.

[culturejam]

There's nothing wrong, at all, with selling clones. Just be honest about it.

That's the biggest differentiator between Analogman and JHS (on the product side). Analogman proudly proclaims to sell clones. It's his whole marketing message: vintage clones built very well. And he does a damn good job on the products and the service after the sale.

JHS has done very well in over the last couple years. He must be doing something right on the service side of things. That's where the "upstart" hot new companies usually crash and burn. If the service was bad, the company would be putting out videos explaining why they hadn't shipped any pedals.

[jtn191]

I didn't mean to bother anyone with the statement, it was made with both company's marketing material in mind. Anyone who follows them on Facebook knows what I'm talking about. If you read AnalogMan's info on fuzz faces he stresses brand of transistor over actual specs. I just mean that both are enormously successful and somewhat deceptive--they don't share the truth in the way that RG Keen does.

Calling your pedal--a dual Bluesbreaker--"The King of Tone" is a little sensational IMO.

Plus their mods are almost never elaborated on. It's assumed that they're making your pedal sound better but aren't told why or how.

I could have said: What do we (as hobbyists, cloners, experimenters, tweakers, craftsmen) have a use for a company who sells what we make and give little extra info?

[upthepunxxx]

JHS and Analog Man are mostly hype.

These two companies aren't remotely comparable in their methods, execution, reputation, or craft. AnalogMike spent years tracing vintage circuits on his own  before there was an internet to do the work for him -- and he in fact contributed to discussion in the DIY community in the early years of the internet and reverse engineered some rare vintage pieces before the DIY community jumped on them and traces his version. Mike also spent decades running a gear shop with excellent customer service. And yeah, he made a big stink about people tracing and copying the King of Tone (and revealing it to be a tweaked bluesbreaker), but jeez, his ad copy has never claimed that it was an original circuit ... in fact, it implied that it was based on a tube screamer, which would have made it even MORE common. And AnalogMan's prices are mostly pretty darned fair for boutique gear with a waiting list a mile long, a reputation to kill for, and outstanding resale value. The modified clones Analogman sells are all extinct circuits -- for years he was the only way to get a San Ash Fuzz Boxx (Astrotone), Ross Compressor (Mike also developed the attack control that has been added to many versions of this), CE-2, and even Orange Squeezer (I think he was the first one to start cloning them). Worth noting: AnalogMan will modify your tube screamer but he doesn't manufacture one. He must be the only long-time running boutique that doesn't bother manufacturing tube screamers. (And though I'm sure you could argue that it's a lot more profitable to modify them, that's not really the point.) The insides of an AnalogMan pedal have ALWAYS looked excellent -- it didn't take pictures on the internet of shabby work or excuses about "getting too many orders" to make that happen.

AnalogMan, along with a couple other companies, were basically the only game in town for boutique builders for a long time going back into the 1980s. They "got some famous people to like them" because they were the only alternative to off-the-shelf pedals -- which were not in a great place at the time, either, because they didn't have much substantial competition (though Boss was still making excellent stuff, of course) -- and the only ways to get certain pieces of highly coveted vintage circuits, like germanium fuzz faces and some other period-correct extinct pedals. He also knew how to fix the real units those people were using when they broke. Saying that AnalogMan does "what we do" is ignoring how horrendously difficult this hobby would have been before everything was a forum search away. I know I haven't been in this as long as many people on this forum (just over two years now), but I can remember what it was like to do research on even well-known topics before the internet. I can't imagine how difficult it was for a hobby with such esoteric appeal, few print publications, and maybe five people in a hundred mile radius who have the least interest in thinking about it.

Good stuff. I appreciate the perspective!

[LaceSensor]

JHS and Analog Man are mostly hype.

These two companies aren't remotely comparable in their methods, execution, reputation, or craft. AnalogMike spent years tracing vintage circuits on his own  before there was an internet to do the work for him -- and he in fact contributed to discussion in the DIY community in the early years of the internet and reverse engineered some rare vintage pieces before the DIY community jumped on them and traces his version. Mike also spent decades running a gear shop with excellent customer service. And yeah, he made a big stink about people tracing and copying the King of Tone (and revealing it to be a tweaked bluesbreaker), but jeez, his ad copy has never claimed that it was an original circuit ... in fact, it implied that it was based on a tube screamer, which would have made it even MORE common. And AnalogMan's prices are mostly pretty darned fair for boutique gear with a waiting list a mile long, a reputation to kill for, and outstanding resale value. The modified clones Analogman sells are all extinct circuits -- for years he was the only way to get a San Ash Fuzz Boxx (Astrotone), Ross Compressor (Mike also developed the attack control that has been added to many versions of this), CE-2, and even Orange Squeezer (I think he was the first one to start cloning them). Worth noting: AnalogMan will modify your tube screamer but he doesn't manufacture one. He must be the only long-time running boutique that doesn't bother manufacturing tube screamers. (And though I'm sure you could argue that it's a lot more profitable to modify them, that's not really the point.) The insides of an AnalogMan pedal have ALWAYS looked excellent -- it didn't take pictures on the internet of shabby work or excuses about "getting too many orders" to make that happen.

AnalogMan, along with a couple other companies, were basically the only game in town for boutique builders for a long time going back into the 1980s. They "got some famous people to like them" because they were the only alternative to off-the-shelf pedals -- which were not in a great place at the time, either, because they didn't have much substantial competition (though Boss was still making excellent stuff, of course) -- and the only ways to get certain pieces of highly coveted vintage circuits, like germanium fuzz faces and some other period-correct extinct pedals. He also knew how to fix the real units those people were using when they broke. Saying that AnalogMan does "what we do" is ignoring how horrendously difficult this hobby would have been before everything was a forum search away. I know I haven't been in this as long as many people on this forum (just over two years now), but I can remember what it was like to do research on even well-known topics before the internet. I can't imagine how difficult it was for a hobby with such esoteric appeal, few print publications, and maybe five people in a hundred mile radius who have the least interest in thinking about it.

I concur
Analog man is reputable
Jhs are charlatans

[micromegas]

JHS and Analog Man are mostly hype.

These two companies aren't remotely comparable in their methods, execution, reputation, or craft. AnalogMike spent years tracing vintage circuits on his own  before there was an internet to do the work for him -- and he in fact contributed to discussion in the DIY community in the early years of the internet and reverse engineered some rare vintage pieces before the DIY community jumped on them and traces his version. Mike also spent decades running a gear shop with excellent customer service. And yeah, he made a big stink about people tracing and copying the King of Tone (and revealing it to be a tweaked bluesbreaker), but jeez, his ad copy has never claimed that it was an original circuit ... in fact, it implied that it was based on a tube screamer, which would have made it even MORE common. And AnalogMan's prices are mostly pretty darned fair for boutique gear with a waiting list a mile long, a reputation to kill for, and outstanding resale value. The modified clones Analogman sells are all extinct circuits -- for years he was the only way to get a San Ash Fuzz Boxx (Astrotone), Ross Compressor (Mike also developed the attack control that has been added to many versions of this), CE-2, and even Orange Squeezer (I think he was the first one to start cloning them). Worth noting: AnalogMan will modify your tube screamer but he doesn't manufacture one. He must be the only long-time running boutique that doesn't bother manufacturing tube screamers. (And though I'm sure you could argue that it's a lot more profitable to modify them, that's not really the point.) The insides of an AnalogMan pedal have ALWAYS looked excellent -- it didn't take pictures on the internet of shabby work or excuses about "getting too many orders" to make that happen.

AnalogMan, along with a couple other companies, were basically the only game in town for boutique builders for a long time going back into the 1980s. They "got some famous people to like them" because they were the only alternative to off-the-shelf pedals -- which were not in a great place at the time, either, because they didn't have much substantial competition (though Boss was still making excellent stuff, of course) -- and the only ways to get certain pieces of highly coveted vintage circuits, like germanium fuzz faces and some other period-correct extinct pedals. He also knew how to fix the real units those people were using when they broke. Saying that AnalogMan does "what we do" is ignoring how horrendously difficult this hobby would have been before everything was a forum search away. I know I haven't been in this as long as many people on this forum (just over two years now), but I can remember what it was like to do research on even well-known topics before the internet. I can't imagine how difficult it was for a hobby with such esoteric appeal, few print publications, and maybe five people in a hundred mile radius who have the least interest in thinking about it.

Thanks Jon.
It is really cool to have people like you on this forum that tell things as they are. One of the big problems of the internet era is to get access to reliable info and is easy to be carried along by some arguments without really getting to think about the whole picture.

[selfdestroyer]

Here is another question. Do you think the lost relationship and bad taste he has gave in the mouths of the DIY community that helped him start out effects his sales? I know he was really popular in the P&W crowd as a lot of boutique vendors are but that has seemed to die down. On my blog, the number one search term is "JHS Morning Glory" and I still get asked about the clone I did. I then replay "Its just a modded Marshall Bulesbreaker and nothing more". Which reminds me, I need to update a post on it since I got a better etch-able layout from a DIYSB member and it sounds great.

I am finding it harder and harder not to think like a builder and sometime have to rely on my father to answer the question, "would you buy it?" Knowing that, does our (DIY community) opinions weigh in on normal day to day players?

Just things I am thinking about at work today.

Cody