Amp Sims (Guitar Rig, Amplitube, etc.), what do you think of them?

[peAk]

Just curious if people on here liked them, used them, etc.

One of the reasons I bought an amp again recently (sold most of my hardware/gear years ago) is because I wasn't liking the tones I was getting recording direct with amp sims. I still think they are cool and can be used creatively but I think they just can't nail a true tube sound. They have gotten a whole lot better in the last 5 years but don't know if they will ever be able to truly capture a true tube tone.

Discuss

[rullywowr]

I think sims have their place but can't replace capturing a real amp with a good mic. 

[thesameage]

What do you guys think of stuff like the runoffgroove condor?

[Willybomb]

I once did a comparo using SimulAnalogue JCM800 plugin by putting that on the (?) channel, mixed 100% to that side, and my miced VS102r (a marshall valvestate amp) 100% on the other on a complete song.  I then posted the mix on the ntrack forum to see if people could tell the which was which in the context of the mix.

The results were about 50/50 correct/wrong iirc, but I also invited the plugin designers to have a listen.  They got it.... wrong, because they thought they could hear the cab resonance they programmed into the plugin on the real-amp channel.

I'm not sure ultimately what that means - maybe I did a crap job of recording the amp, maybe it's just a crap amp to start with, but I think the point is that it's not necessarily the source, it's the context.

This was probably... 7 years ago at least, so I don't think you'll find the thread on the nTrack forum anymore, BUT, you can hear it here:

https://soundcloud.com/william-phillips-9/lazy-gene-theory-way-you-look

Go on, have a listen and tell me which one is the VST...

That plugin is nearly a standard go-to for me when I'm tracking guitars.  It's just a good basic rock amp, and I have a sneaking suspicion it's on all the tracks I have on that soundcloud page in some capacity.

http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

If I'm feeling adventurous, I'll use a freebie vst ampsim (lepou, acmebargig, ect) and a cab impulse or two (I have recabinet, amongst a stack of others), but really... how many options do you want?

[selfdestroyer]

Like Rully said, I have used them for some situation but I prefer to mic my cabinet when I can. I used the built in amp simulators in Logic Pro X but never really used the built in effects much. I recently got the Stymon Big Sky and have been playing with the cab emulation output it offers and it doesn't sound half bad. I think it all comes down to what will work in your situation. Try them both and see how well your guitar sits in the mix.

Cody

[midwayfair]

I've been using Logic's amp modelers for my home recordings. Although I'm aware that there are better amp sims out there, I've decided that basically they're not going to get an overdrive sound right enough for me to worry about it. But I'm lucky ... I don't use a lot of dirt, and when I do, it's fuzz anyway, not amp distortion.

Incidentally, JustNick did a blind test whether people used to hearing it could distinguish between solid state/pedal distortion and amp distortion. The results did not favor the snobs, I'll tell you that.

Okay, here's the pros and cons to models as I see them:
You can change the amp sound AFTER you record the basic track in ways that go beyond simple EQ. I can't express how awesome this is.
It's convenient, quiet, and almost guarantees a clean take free of the vagaries of mic placement, phase issues, and environmental noise. This is a pro AND a con.
Anything beyond the tiniest bit of distortion sounds like crap if you're trying to emulate a real amp, even with good modelers.
Dynamics suffer a lot when you don't have the speaker in the room pushing air and interacting with the guitar. This is my personal biggest complaint about using them. I've tried a few different things like adding an exciter and an expander pre-amp EQ/pre-compression and it improved things a little, but I'm not good enough at mixing to really do a good job on it. I also have to do the same sort of things to an electric keyboard, though -- the dynamics on those are really bad and it took me hours to get one sounding good on a single demo song we recorded over the weekend. I had to manually adjust the levels all over the place, sometimes at note levels, even with the expander.

I can tell you, however, that I played a recording for my regular engineer (Chris Freeland at Beat Babies Studios), and he was able to guess the make and speaker size of a couple different models, and in one case was even able to correctly guess the type of microphone model used on it. (Logic lets you choose what the cab is miced with.) However, he also commented that it sounded dark. This is because microphones tend to have a boost in the 10K range (some slightly lower), so they're getting a lot more air. And this could probably be corrected with the right plugins and EQ work.

I wouldn't use a modeler on a serious recording where I knew ahead of time what kind of sound I was going for. I really love them for working out ideas, though.

[raulduke]

I agree pretty much 100% with Jon.

I have Guitar Rig and use it quite a bit.

It's great fun (ie. in a 'I wonder what 10 reverbs and 10 delays in series would sound like' way), and convenient.

But sounding 100% like a decently mic'd amp and cab setup it does not (to my ears anyhow).

Like most digital modelling of analogue equipment, they are getting there, but it's a case of not quite there yet at this moment.

[peAk]

To me, Gforce have come to closest to recreating analog synths via vst. I used Oddity (ARP Odyssey) all the time and it nails it pretty well. That being said, there is still a noticable diffference in some settings. U-he Diva is also another great "analog" vst.

My thoughts differ a little bit with Jon's in that usually amp modelers fail more in clean tube sounds than hi gain sounds in my opinion. I have heard heavy, HEAVY hi gain songs where people used 100% amp modeling and I couldn't tell at all. All that being said, I have been fooled before with A/B comparisons.

The feedback (or lack of) with amp modelers is pretty horrific too.

They ARE convenient though. And like Jon said, it's nice to be able to completely switch out amps, effects, etc. on the fly.

[Jmilla]

I bought a clearence line 6 toneport di gold for like 70 bucks a few years ago and it included every model they had, it also transfered to their newer program podfarm. Overall they sound pretty good and the number of things you can do with pod farm is pretty extensive as well as running stereo setups. Great for recording but I have never used it live.

[peAk]

The Mermen - No Definite Future & No Purpose Othe...: http://youtu.be/wTrv9uAHFqQ

Just don't think you could get this tone through an amp sim

[steveperiod]

this thread is super interesting to me as i'm currently in a spot where i might be forced to use some sort of amp sim for all of my recorded guitars. i had considered adding a dummy load to my 18W and using something like a red box for silent recording, but i'm not sure it would be enough of an improvement over the tone of the sims to be worth the effort (because of my elementary recording/mixing skills). my family is moving out of country so we're a bit limited on what we can bring. my wife is fine with my modest pedalboard coming but we just have no room for an amp with a cab. *maybe* a small head, but that's it.

another issue in my case is the place we're going (nepal) is without power for huge chunks of the day. so a sim has the added advantage of being able to be used as long as my laptop has a battery charge. pretty sweet but unfortunately doesn't have the fantastic tone of the 6V6s in my amp.

i've been using the sims in logic pro x as well to try and get a feel for what i could be dealing with. i've pretty much come to the same conclusions listed above. good, not great, and good amp is definitely preferable. now i've heard of some other sims mentioned as being quite a bit better - scuffham s-gear, most of the time - but i haven't had the chance to try it out yet.

[jtn191]

ha The Mermen are awesome! @WillyBomb, that song reminds me of Superchunk- Precision Auto. I've used Amplitube and Guitar Rig and they're the leaders in the market, the Peavey product was pretty cool. They're pretty good, and honestly hard to tell apart in all the shootout/contests I've come across. But they don't quite feel real, dynamic enough or get the feeling of a speaker moving air. I would use an amp sim if A) an amp I had wasn't cutting it B) I wanted to record/practice quietly. I'd really like to know if any of my favorite guitar tones were through an amp sim...Tchad Blake uses Sansamp all the time. Again, they're super convenient and fun to see what different stuff sounds like.

[alexradium]

I use Amplitube all the time,the Soldano lead is awesome.
On a winpc Overloud th2 is also very good.

Inviato dal mio Nexus 7 utilizzando Tapatalk

[fman7]

I don't have the space/means to mic an amp properly.

I've tried all the amp sims, and a few years ago settled on Guitar Rig.

However, have just swapped over to Scuffham Amps S-Gear which I think is brilliant, the only sim I've played where I've just played and played, not stopping to tweak patches coz they didn't sound just right, and it's cheap to.

Also, Bias is fantastic on the ipad.

[MADWAGNER]

I like to mix the two together.
Nothing beats getting a good sound with mics. But I use Guitar Rig sometimes when doing scratch tracks and it sounds really good. A decent mic pre also help when DIing, as opposed to plugging directly into a Mbox,etc..