Volume pedal in the loop or in front of the amp?

[jkokura]

I'm switching to a 3 cable method, running some effects in my effects loop on my tweaker. Just delay and reverb really, but I also will be running a Volume Pedal that comes after my gain pedals and in front of my delay pedals.

So, would you run the Volume Pedal in the loop or would you run it in front of the amp?

Jacob

[gtr2]

I run mine after my gain pedals, but before modulation and delays.  I'm running into a clean tube amp though.

Josh

[GermanCdn]

Personally, I'd stick it in front, whether in front of the dirt or after depends.  Given that the Tweakers a single channel, putting it in front of the dirt pedals would give you the ability to manipulate the pedals (like rolling back the volume knob), letting you clean up the pedals (and acting as a faux channel switcher, as the Tweaker's a single). Putting it after would work too, if set your dirt pedals output above unity, then you could slam the front end of the amp, but wouldn't have any effect over the behaviour of the dirt pedals.

Putting it in the effects loop would be cool for volume swells or overall output control, but wouldn't change the overall tone as much.

[jkokura]

I've been googling.

Apparantly some people recommend only doing this with a low impedance (read 25-50K) pot in the pedal. The one I'm using is the Ernie Ball 6166, which has a 250K pot. Anyone with experience know if this means something?

Jacob

[GrindCustoms]

If you run your modulation effects in the loop of your amp i would personnaly have the volume pedal in there aswell, first thing going in. It's bloody brilliant for lush volume swells with delay and verb.

But if you do so, i would recommend buffering your volume pedal, if not, when going through the volume sweep you'll be changing the output impedance load of your preamp output wich can be something harmfull to your amp.

[electrosonic]

But if you do so, i would recommend buffering your volume pedal, if not, when going through the volume sweep you'll be changing the output impedance load of your preamp output wich can be something harmfull to your amp.

I seriously doubt you could harm your amp this way.. Can you explain?

[aion]

I have mine inside the loop, but after a buffered pedal (EHX Superego). The buffered pedal should protect against any impedance issues. If you get any overdrive flavor at all from your preamp, you'll want the volume pedal in the loop. The preamp could be considered another overdrive pedal as it relates to the conventional wisdom about volume pedal placement (which is that it should always go after dirt but before modulation).

[Thomas_H]

I just watched a pedalboard demo video of a guitarist which runs a volume pedal at the front of his loop because he wants to control the effects, especially distortion, like with the volume pot on his guitar.

It depends what parameter you want to control with it.

[GrindCustoms]

But if you do so, i would recommend buffering your volume pedal, if not, when going through the volume sweep you'll be changing the output impedance load of your preamp output wich can be something harmfull to your amp.

I seriously doubt you could harm your amp this way.. Can you explain?

Maybe harmfull is a bit too much, but hearing an amp «crackle» when you sweep a volume pedal in his loop, i don't think that it's good on the long term run.

I don't have any technical explanation, my friend had a Fargen amp, the loop of it was taking pedal well and all and he decided to put is VPJr with a 250K pot in the loop to get the most out of is modulation and time effect when doing swells. The amp started to crack when playing with the pedal. We did various emplacement test in the loop and when the volume pedal was after is Mobius, everything was fine. So i installed a buffer at the input of is volume pedal and it solved the cracking issue.

[electrosonic]

If I heard a crackle while sweeping a pot I would suspect a leaky cap putting DC on the pot. If you switched to a buffered volume pedal, the input cap to the buffer would block the DC and hide the problem.

[GrindCustoms]

If I heard a crackle while sweeping a pot I would suspect a leaky cap putting DC on the pot. If you switched to a buffered volume pedal, the input cap to the buffer would block the DC and hide the problem.

Jacob also started this thread at BYOC, http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49210, Morgan have brought something interesting to the table regarding the impedance required in the amp effect loop.

[Leevibe]

Interesting thread Jacob. I'm not using a loop but +1 on VP after dirt. That's how I run mine too. I like my full signal hitting my OD so that it can fully respond to picking dynamics. Having my drives sandwiched between the volume pot on my guitar and the one in my VP gives more flexibility. This also puts buffering in front of the VP and allows me to use the tuner out, which is handy. If I had an amp with a loop, I would still be inclined to put the VP before preamp.

[blearyeyes]

If you run it at the front of all your pedals then you are using it combined with your guitar pot.... 250k for single coils and 500k for Humbuckers how does all of that work out?

[Morgan]

If you run it at the front of all your pedals then you are using it combined with your guitar pot.... 250k for single coils and 500k for Humbuckers how does all of that work out?

Actually, it doesn't matter where you run it in your pedal chain if all of the pedals are true bypass. If they are all bypassed, that pot in the volume pedal still goes in parallel with the volume pot in your guitar and knocks the impedance down, scrubbing high end content. The effect is similar to how we match pot values to different pickups (250k for single coils = normal, 500k for buckers = normal,  1 megs for jaguar pickups = friggin bright because they aren't loaded down, etc). If you have a guitar with single coils and a 250k volume pot, the 250k pot in the passive VP is doubling the impedance load (halving the impedance to 125k) that your pickups see.

Once you activate a pedal, or use a buffer or a pedal with buffered bypass, in the chain between your guitar and the VP, the VP is isolated from the pickups, that parallel relationship is gone, and the loading disappears.

Some guys like the loading though. I don't mind it myself.