Question about guitar interfaces

[slimtriggers]

I've been using a Samson Co1u and get pretty good results.  It's a USB mic, so you don't even need an interface with it if you're just mic'ing your amp.

I think it comes with a stripped down version of Sonar.  I never installed, that, though.

http://www.amazon.com/Samson-C01UCW-Studio-Cakewalk-Sonar/dp/B000PTF0E2

[lincolnic]

Maybe i should start another topic for this question, but as this one is still open, i'll post right here.

I'm also willing to buy my first mic, but as i am a begginner in sorts of things, i have to ask for opinions.
I'm looking at the shure sm57, read that it is a very good and versatile mic, and i'm also looking at a audio technica at2020, don't know about that one, but also read that it is very good for the price. Any better options?

If you're just looking at miking your amp, the 57 will do you fine. With all respect to Ben and Sennheiser (whose mics I love), you'll probably get a better low-end response out of the 57. If I was doing live sound I might want the 906, though.

[HailToTheBlues]

yeah, i forgot to write that i was looking for a mic to record vocals and acoustic guitars (not at the same time). Now that i cleared that  , which mic would do that job?

[Willybomb]

If you're just looking at miking your amp, the 57 will do you fine. With all respect to Ben and Sennheiser (whose mics I love), you'll probably get a better low-end response out of the 57

Hmmm.. the 57 has a fairly sharp bottom end rolloff, which is why it works well when closely micing amp cabs - the proximity effect is minimized.  Once you start moving it out a few inches, you'll hear the bottom end decline pretty sharply.

[lincolnic]

If you're looking for vocals and acoustic guitar, the AT2020 is a better choice. You're going to want a condenser mic to get more detail there.

[jkokura]

Jon beat me to it, but yeah - if you're doing guitar cabs, acoustic and Vocals, an LDC will do it all, and a dynamic only maybe will do it all. Go with the 2020.

Jacob

[midwayfair]

I got this microphone set:
AT2020 and AT2021

The 2020 is a good microphone, period, not just for the price, and you can get a set with an instrument condenser for pretty cheap if you look (there's one for $130 right now). Vocals can be picky about microphones, but I think you'd have to start looking above $1K before you actually find something clearly better than the 2020. Heck, I use mine live now ...

[rullywowr]

I got this microphone set:
AT2020 and AT2021

The 2020 is a good microphone, period, not just for the price, and you can get a set with an instrument condenser for pretty cheap if you look (there's one for $130 right now). Vocals can be picky about microphones, but I think you'd have to start looking above $1K before you actually find something clearly better than the 2020. Heck, I use mine live now ...

That's a false statement. You can get a Sennheiser MK4 for $299. You can also get a Neumann TLM 102 for $799.  Both are made in Germany at the Neumann/Sennheiser factory and are clearly a step above the 2020.

[rullywowr]

You can get a Sennheiser MK4 for $299.

I think that's comparable to the 2020 but not clearly better. It's a lot brighter but has less inherent EQ overall. It also has more bass, which isn't necessarily a good thing for recording a guitar. What about it, besides the country of origin, do you think makes it a clear step up? They handle comparable input levels, have comparable noise performance, and there's nothing about the construction of the AT that I find lacking. And the research I did on Gearslutz before "cheaping out" and getting the AT package doesn't seem to disagree.

I didn't know about the 102, so I guess $800 is less than my generalization of $1,000. I wasn't really looking for anything over $500.

I was simply correcting your statement that one doesn't have to spend $1000 to get a good condenser microphone as you suggested.  I will say that the AT2020 does work well, for an $99 electret mic.  The words "Fixed-charge back plate, permanently polarized condenser" mean that it is an electret microphone and not what is known as a "True Condenser."  Electret microphones use a permanently charged material (usually a type of mylar) which is superheated and then bombarded with a strong electrical field.  When the material cools, it is then permanently charged.  Electret microphones are ubiquitous in todays culture, featured in everything from childrens toys, cell phones, and anywhere a cheap mic is needed.  They get a bad rap because the tolerances are not quite as good when they are pumping them out by the billions.  Not to say there aren't good electrets out there..(Sennheiser e865, Shure KSM9, lavalier mics etc) however they typically stop around the $649 price point.

Electrets are cheaper to manufacture but the best microphones, as you find in every top studio in the world, are going to be of the  "True Condenser" variety.  All Neumann mics (except the BCM705 dynamic) are true condensers.  The True Condenser principle takes extra care to manufacture and extra circuitry to bias the backplate.   So what does "Country of Origin" have to do with it?  Well, careful attention has to be invested in the coating of the diaphragm material (usually by gold sputtering) and achieving uniform capsule tension all under a dust free clean environment.  This is something that has been perfected for over 65 years by Neumann/Sennheiser and performed in "clean rooms" the same type that heart catheters are made in.  The tolerances are so close that you can take a mic made today, and a mic made 5 years ago and they will be matched within 1dB.  Requesting consecutive serial numbers from Neumann is a thing of the past to assure a matched pair (but can still be provided if the customer is particular).  Audio Technica...did you know that AT is a huge manufacturer of Sushi Rice cookers.... check out the logo    

http://www.autec-usa.com/products/norimakimakers.html

The $299 Sennheiser MK4 is a true condenser with a 1" (25.4mm) capsule.  The Neumann TLM102 also has a larger capsule.  The AT2020 has a 16mm electret capsule.  What does a larger capsule mean?  Increased sensitivity and increased response especially with transient sounds.  Noticable...you bet.

I'm not knocking the 2020, for $99, I agree that it is a solid deal for short money.  If it works for you, it works...plain and simple.  The best microphone is one that you are going to use and get good sounds out of.  I always say the first rule of microphones is that there are no rules.  The 2020 is going to reproduce more treble frequencies than say your vanilla SM57.  I'm glad you are happy with your 2020 however, to say that you have to spend $1000 (or even $500) to get a better microphone than a 2020 is patently false.   

What works very well for studio recording guitar cabs is a combination of a condenser with a dynamic.  I had the opportunity of a lifetime a few years ago to have dinner with Al Schmitt (most award winning engineer of all time), George Massenburg, and Chuck Ainlay.  The conversation came around to microphones (of course) and all of them agreed their favorite mic was the Neumann U67 (unfortunately out of production).  Mark Knopfler's sound (Dire Straits) has always been captured by a SM57 and a U67.   A condenser gets great treble response while dynamics have a smooth bass/mid response.  When working together, they cover all the bases.  If I had to pick only one type of mic to mic an electric...it would be a dynamic.  Acoustic...always condenser.  Usually a LDC near the body and a pencil condenser near the 12th fret.

A cool old trick when using two microphones on a guitar cab is to set one up where you think it sounds good.  Then run some kind of noise through your guitar rig (like a fuzz pedal or a noisy effect).  Before setting the position of the second mic, flip it out of phase and put some headphones on.  Move the second mic to where the noise is the least pronounced.  When you get back to the console, flip the phase back to normal and you should have some epic toanz.  If your interface/console doesn't have a phase reverse switch you can monitor through the DAW where you can flip the phase there.  If that still isn't an option, you can wire a short XLR in reverse (swap pins 2 and 3) to get a phase reversing cable.

[midwayfair]

Eh, I deleted my comment anyway because I was only able to test the MK4 in a store booth and not at home through an interface anyway, and I didn't want this to turn into a thread derail.

I was looking for a third mic, so I might add the Sennheiser to my list of possibles. It does sound like a really good deal for the price (and I had assumed it was another faux condenser in any case before).

[jkokura]

Ben,

While we all appreciate your knowledge and information, I know you're an employee for Sennheiser. I believe it's pretty poor form for you to knock Audio Technica around. You have no basis to suggest that a Rice Machine might be built in the same factory, and by using that as an argument, not that's really not appropriate to the original question being posed, you've gone a little bit too far.

You like Sennheiser and Neumann Mics. That's great. That's not what the OP asked about, and your knocking on Audio Technica could be considered slander. Careful bud.

Jacob

[rullywowr]

Ben,

While we all appreciate your knowledge and information, I know you're an employee for Sennheiser. I believe it's pretty poor form for you to knock Audio Technica around. You have no basis to suggest that a Rice Machine might be built in the same factory, and by using that as an argument, not that's really not appropriate to the original question being posed, you've gone a little bit too far.

You like Sennheiser and Neumann Mics. That's great. That's not what the OP asked about, and your knocking on Audio Technica could be considered slander. Careful bud.

Jacob

I like mics from many companies and wasn't knocking the AT2020. In fact I gave props to the AT2020 in my post. I personally own mics from many companies and not just Sennheiser/Neumann. I have c414s and they are a studio staple for overheads and much more. For $99 the AT2020 is a solid deal.  The OP was asking about interfaces but when I see a post which contains disinformation regarding mics, I'm going to chime in.  Sorry, but I can't let that slide when it's something well within my wheelhouse.

I edited my post to not suggest the possibility that AT may make mics in the same factory. I never said that it was true, just something to think about. Regardless of hurting anyone's sensitive sensibilities, It's a true statement that AT is one of the premiere Rice Cooker manufacturers, many do not know this.

[jkokura]

Regardless of whether they were, it's not pertinent to the discussion here at Madbean, and it looks bad to 'suggest' that because Audio Technica make Mics AND make Rice Cookers that somehow makes them an inferior product. Particularly because you work for a competitor.

Yamaha makes awesome guitars, some of the best pianos in the world, and a huge assortment of quality brass, woodwind and string instruments. They also make ATVs and Motorcycles.

If an Asian company diversifies in it's manufacture we shouldn't look on that with Western eyes and ask, "is this a wise thing." It's actually a sign of success and typical of an Eastern philosophy of business.

Jacob

[Willybomb]

Had a quick dip with the 18i8 tonight.  Plenty of usable gain with and without the pad, but so far I'm finding that it's clipping before the "halo" level indicator goes red.  Not a big deal, you just have to listen.

[HailToTheBlues]

yeah, the old-school way