Premier guitar Bill Finnegan article

[madbean]

At what point in that does everyone think it's reasonable for the guy to just go do something else without everyone saying nasty things about them? Or is it just that he gave his opinion in an interview?

I think you make good points, Jon. And, I know there is another side to it...his side. But, on your point above: the problem is that he isn't doing something else....he is in eternal limbo of almost producing a product. That's been going on for four years now. To come out and say "well I don't know if I should bother because people have maligned me" is a very fool-hardy way to operate a business. I don't think anyone is being particularly nasty to him on a personal level. They are criticizing his statements as a professional in the pedal business. Very different, IMO.

[culturejam]

Imagine building the same pedal, and only that pedal, every day for the rest of your life.

Let's just take this one point right here. This is a choice to build only one pedal. And like a lot of the other doom-and-gloom points you listed, these are under the control of the person running the business. Things like keeping production totally manual, using a particular custom expensive enclosure, renting space in an expensive city, hinging the entire business on one product for a decade...all things that are totally under my control if I'm the business owner.

If I were faced with these issues, I would do *something* (probably multiple somethings) to remedy the situation. Maybe find a production partner or license my design (with full public endorsement/blessing) to keep residual income while reducing labor to essentially zero. Those would be prudent and reasonable things to do that would not require uprooting your life. Failing that, I would quit and find something else to do. 

Easy for me to say not being the in the situation, I know. But I've been in situations not too dissimilar in the past. I tend to be a "shit or get off the pot" kind of guy. I hate languishing in some middle state between doing something and moving on, and I really do not like pity parties. But obviously, some people thrive on that sort of thing.

[Jmilla]

I wonder what his not more stringent but "different" criteria are for production....

[juansolo]

I wonder what his not more stringent but "different" criteria are for production....

Some bullshit that means that no-one thinks it's worth partnering with him? Like I say, I'd like to know what happened that meant that the mass production KTR stopped after 6 months. It certainly wasn't because it didn't sell!

It's what baffles me and why I have no sympathy for him. He has a saleable product with an established market and a reputation that means he can mark up that product significantly. Everything about it reeks of making a profit. If it's money, how is he not getting investment? It can't be actually finding someone to make it because there's plenty of peeps out there with the ability. Partnering, christ who wouldn't want to be associated with and selling the official Klon Centaur?

Yet since the KTR, nothing. Until this article where he moans about how hard done by he is...

[jkokura]

I am posting in this thread.

Jacob

[Jmilla]

Ha

[jubal81]

Note to self:
Giving in to butt hurt is a bad business move.

Some people just don't have a mind for business. It's a shame he doesn't hire a president/manager. I think it's frustrating to read because we see a guy who's sitting on a vacant lot that's a proven oil gusher and he's just sitting there grousing that picks and shovels are too much a hassle.

[jkokura]

From the beginning he's had terrible business sense. All of it doesn't make sense.

Look at JHS. Nobody seems to like that guy, but he's making money hand over foot and his business is growing because he's great at the business end of things. If Bill had had a partner like that...

Jacob

[pickdropper]

I think the crux of it has basically been hit, but apparently I feel the need to post in this thread as well.

He refers to good people leaving the pedal industry for other industries so they won't get ripped off (presumably protected by patents).  Let's pretend for a minute that he did patent the Klon.

A patent lasts for 17 years.  During patent disclosure, prior art is established and that is protected (if enforced) during that time the patent is valid.  Once a patent expires, the floodgates open and anybody can make the product, which is exactly what the patent system is designed to allow.  It was never intended to allow for permanent exclusivity.  It was designed so that inventors could recover their investments and make some money, but not forever.

If 15 years went by before the first Klone showed up, he did very well, nearly getting the benefit of a patent without the filing fees and the cost of protecting it.

It's always a bummer to the inventor when a patent expires, but they do and businesses need to move forward or fall by the wayside.

[GermanCdn]

I clearly need to post here or I won't be in with all the cool kids.

I have no issues with Bill (not like I know the guy).  He's responsible, in whatever fashion, for a great product that is highly revered. 

If he has in fact sold 8000 units @ $400 a unit (or whatever the price is), he probably should have banked between $1.5M and $2M off the product (figuring his production costs can't run more then $150 for an 80 component build which he didn't outsource).  I wouldn't complain too loudly about that.  The KTR experiment clearly didn't work, for whatever reason.  Now, if he blew all that dough on sideline interests, that's another story, but then he is clearly his own worst enemy, he can't be pissed at the klone world for his lack of acumen if that is the case.

Now, if I were him, I'd continue building the original product at my leisure.  I'm certain he could build and sell one day, five days a week, @ $500 - $1000 a pop and would still have an order backlog; the Joe Perrys, Joe Bonamassos, and Billy Gibbons of the world could probably keep him busy by themselves, and he wouldn't need to even market to the general public.

Clearly, it's not reasonable to expect that the original business model is sustainable infinitely.  If you don't want to/can't do the R&D, then become exclusive to those who won't buy the Aluminum Falcons, Soul Foods, or whatever else.  But don't make yourself look like the victim, which is kind of how this all comes across.

[rullywowr]

I really respect Bill's work and his success is a special combination of having a good original circuit, combined with scarcity, which makes the Klon "unobtainum."  Any of us could be as fortunate to have a slam-dunk product which is revered by the music community as "the one" or something special and world-renowned.  I place the Klon is in the same category as a Dumble, or a Trainwreck.  These are "unobtainum" because they are no longer produced, yet these tools were/are used to conjure "teh epik toanz" by (insert famous guitar player here).

There is a very delicate balance between supply and demand but it seems that Bill has sided too much with with the demand side of things and when there is a void in the market, there will be others there to fill that void.  Sitting on the sidelines and bitchin' about how the rest of the world passed you by is just crap.  Complaining about how others have filled that void because you choose not to make a product anymore doesn't pay the bills.  Like anything in life, you can either make it happen, or watch others make it happen.  You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.

Perhaps it's a pride thing, as his circuit was original and now there are copies of it all over the place.  While it is a douchebag thing to do to clone a circuit and claim you invented it yourself...(ahem JHS, Danelectro, others)...there will always be a market for clones.  I'm sure Bill feels both honored and hurt at the same time that others copied his design.  Take the black goop for example on the Klons.  Perhaps it was an effort to stop copying as well as a marketing tool "wow..this has goop on it so there must be something special in there!"  Maybe he doesn't want to release anything else because he knows others would just turn around and clone it instantly?  Regardless, whatever he makes will sell...and will sell nicely even with other clones in the market.  He also has that stash of "super-secret-unicorn tear-diodes"...which he claims make the original Klon 'above and beyond' any clones. 

Seeing as the "super secret special diode stash" is still in full effect, there is no reason Bill couldn't release a new version of the Klon or even continue production of the KTR and do pretty well for himself.  He is way past the level where he could easily design a pedal, have it built for him to his specifications, and sit back collecting the checks.  Make enough, but not so many you see them on sale at Guitar Center for $99.00.  Clones be dammed, he has certainly earned a good reputation (well deserved) and whatever he makes seems to have the Midas touch.  Get back to work!

[jkokura]

Yeah, I just did the math. If he sold 8000 units, at a modest $325, that's 2.6 mil over 15 years. Even with his production costs, That's still 175 thou a year gross.

Jacob

[madbean]

I've calmed down a bit. I'm glad we are having this conversation here, because I've made my points, and I've agreed with many other things people are saying here; things I don't feel comfortable saying the bazillion Klon threads on TGP (and are wasteful there anyway). I know people here have a more unique perspective (and most likely a bit more informed) in regards to our viewpoints on the pedal business, building, etc.

In any case, I have a lot of respect for what he's accomplished. Hopefully I did not put too many bad vibes in this thread!

[pryde]

Victim mentality + Narcissistic Personally Disorder = His dilemma.

Bam 

[pickdropper]

Yeah, I just did the math. If he sold 8000 units, at a modest $325, that's 2.6 mil over 15 years. Even with his production costs, That's still 175 thou a year gross.

Jacob

That assumes that every sale is direct. I thought he had dealers, but I could be mistaken.

There is also the cost of tooling up and producing a unique enclosure.  It probably wasn't a fortune, but it would likely be more than getting an off the shelf box.

It also assumes no cost of running the business, but I have no idea what that was (doesn't sound like he has significant costs).