I'm seeking direction: Where to start for R. Wood / Faces "Fuzz".

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Hi folks,

I've been reading threads and threads here, staying up too late, wife's getting pissed, oh well, I just had to register and post.  Please excuse me if I posted in the wrong forum, I honestly gave it a lot of thought as to where this thread should be.

I know so many factors come into "tone" that it's almost never possible to truly recreate a given sound, especially if its in the hands of another player, but I've been searching and searching for a build or even a retail pedal that will travel the road with me in this direction (Ron Woods live tone w/ The Faces 1971):  http://youtu.be/JRa6l1x-Q6E?t=20m3s

Of course the recorded version of "Stay with me" is absolute gold, I'm afraid he may be overdriving the board or other factors may be involved that could make this tone even harder to come close to.

So I've watched countless youtube videos of pedals and builds and it's driving me nuts.  But I keep watching.  Where I'm at now...  is watching every FFM2 Germanium Fuzz Face Video I can find just hoping they will keep the drive at about 9'oclock for at least 5 seconds because in my imagination, it may come close...  But I have yet to see that happen, It's mostly maxed knobs and no chords.

I have to be honest and say I can't make a solid build yet, but I also want to let you guys know that I'm not fishing for somebody to build me a custom pedal or anything like that.  I have mad respect for what you do and I know it it's a passionate deal for most of y'all.

I just want to know what I should be looking at and if a commercial pedal will get me in the same ballpark, great!  If it's available as something that's been build in the past, maybe somebody's got one that's collecting dust and it will pop up in classifieds somewhere...  That's all:)

So please, if you have a road map as to where I should be looking it would be greatly appreciated.  I play out of a early 70's Ampeg VT-40 (top loaded) that plays pretty clean until it's moving the walls.  Yep, it actually moves the walls.

Thanks.

[jubal81]

Ron Wood is probably my favorite guitarist. I don't know what he's using live on 'Miss Judy's Farm' in the clip, but in interviews I've seen him say he records his distorted tone with a tweed champ with the gain on 11 and doesn't use any pedals.

The best I've been able to do for the sound is a Black '65 and a booster in front of it. That gets me really close to the sound in the clip. I've played with the Tweed '57 but I think the '65 does a better job. So in general, I'd recommend a JFET drive with the ability to goose it until it sounds like it's going to die.

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Ron Wood is probably my favorite guitarist. I don't know what he's using live on 'Miss Judy's Farm' in the clip, but in interviews I've seen him say he records his distorted tone with a tweed champ with the gain on 11 and doesn't use any pedals.

The best I've been able to do for the sound is a Black '65 and a booster in front of it. That gets me really close to the sound in the clip. I've played with the Tweed '57 but I think the '65 does a better job. So in general, I'd recommend a JFET drive with the ability to goose it until it sounds like it's going to die.

He's my favorite player as well.  My playing is obviously inspired by his.  But you're right, he's never used pedals.  He cranks small tweeds and even small silverface amps.  In that video hes cranking a small SF Princeton, but hes got some kind of crazy wiring in his guitars I believe that ups the output signal.

I've looked at the Wampler '57 and '65 early on because it was obvious, but only on youtube and I've never heard it come close, maybe I should get to the local mom and pop and try it out myself.  I have a '65 DRRI that wont touch his tone when cranked open.

I'm going to have a listen to the JFET right now.

Thanks JUBAL:)

[alanp]

The '65  DRRI is a blackface amp. The BF amps are different to the tweed series -- the general progression for Fender amps is the newer the amp design, the cleaner it is. I want to build a Tweed Champ at some point, they look like fun little things.

Jubal -- which amp does the Tweed '57 model, exactly? There are subtle differences between the tweeds.

[jubal81]

I don't know which specific model, if any, Wampler was shooting for with the 57. I can't find where he's ever said.

The 65 is really versatile - it could definitely be considered for a 1-dirt setup. Though, if you want that "Oh crap, this thing is about to blow up" fuzz you'll need to push it with a clean boost.

[alanp]

I have a 5E3 (Tweed Deluxe) head, and a 5E8A (Low Power Tweed Twin) combo. There's a world of difference between them -- the 5E3 overdrives if you so much as blink at the volume knob, while the 5E8A will only *start* to mildly overdrive once you go deaf, and boosts do nothing except make it louder. (A boost through the 5E3, otoh, is a thing of overdriving beauty.)

[pedalman]

(Don't remember his name) User with the 70s porn star looking avatar is the fuzz king. He would definitely be worth a good talking to. Also have a chat with steve at smallbear, if the two of you were on the same page as tone goes and took it a step further being on the same page as pcbs go. you could socket the trannys and try his recommendations. Give it a shot

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(Don't remember his name) User with the 70s porn star looking avatar is the fuzz king. He would definitely be worth a good talking to. Also have a chat with steve at smallbear, if the two of you were on the same page as tone goes and took it a step further being on the same page as pcbs go. you could socket the trannys and try his recommendations. Give it a shot

Thanks Pedalman, 

I'll stay on the lookout for 70's porn star avatars.  Since I usually am anyway.

[alanp]

JakeFuzz, IIRC, he defo knows his stuff about any fuzzes

[muddyfox]

Isn't that Freddie Mercury on JakeFuzz's avatar?
When you said 70's porn star, I thought of Gledison. Though I must admit, I'm much better versed in actresses than actors and also in 80s variety. 

[pedalman]

yeah jake knows his stuff
but I was thinking more along the lines of "Cortexturizer" when I first met the guy we had a huge talk all about tone benders and fuzzes. Cant ever remember a name but with a avatar like that you will never forget it ! LOL

[pedalman]

Maybe this thing could get your tone !  LOL

http://www.beavisaudio.com/projects/FuzzLab/

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Maybe this thing could get your tone !  LOL

http://www.beavisaudio.com/projects/FuzzLab/

At first i thought that was photoshopped.  I have to say though, something with a VU Meter just might do it.

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Wow,

I actually found a video of somebody playing a germanium fuzz face with the gain know low, but only for 10 seconds of the entire video.  But still, can't believe somebody actually did it!

http://youtu.be/ZkMiEAXz9CQ?t=10m45s

[midwayfair]

Ron Wood is probably my favorite guitarist. I don't know what he's using live on 'Miss Judy's Farm' in the clip, but in interviews I've seen him say he records his distorted tone with a tweed champ with the gain on 11 and doesn't use any pedals.

That sound is 100% cranked champ with buckers (though some other amps will do something similar).

I actually think you might have decent luck just using a Class A boost circuit biased so your guitar overdrives it fairly easily. It won't be a ton of distortion, but it'll have the spongy character. You can stick some diodes afterward to add a bit of extra distortion (basically, make an electra with different biasing). You could also take the Rangemaster and increase the input and output caps, too.

However, you're right that a germanium fuzz face CAN get a similar sound. You might want to run the voltage (or possibly bias) down some and use a pre-gain control. The pre-gain is to get rid of the sustain and brighten it up. The lower voltage is to take the edge off and make it freak out and sag a little bit. This isn't SO radically different from just using a Class A as described above ... the way the Fuzz Face works is much closer to two transistors acting like a single amplifier anyway.

There are some FET-based circuits I'd recommend that aren't as "hard" sounding as the Black 65. The big one is the Supreaux Deux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18IpzhvQfBo Skip to 3:25. The small Supreaux stuff wasn't radically different from a Tweed. There's a slight problem here: You'd want the bass switch on, and I left it out of my build, and I'm using single coils, which actually makes a big difference with this circuit. But if you add the bass switch, it will get really close to a Tweed. Not quite as much buzz in the top end, but that could be a tone setting.

And there's always ...
http://www.runoffgroove.com/ruby.html

I really, really, wish I could find the video I have in mind, but perhaps a year ago I saw a demo of someone doing Ronnie Wood through a Ruby amp built into a metal canister. It was really, really close. But I've been through a couple dozen pages of videos and I didn't see it come up.

Edit, more stuff to check out:
My take on the MKII Tonebender, skip to 7:45 for a low gain setting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEPx8xdao8A
The first setting in that video isn't super high gain.

A germanium fuzz face with almost a full minute in low gain settings, then later a low gain setting with a compressor in front (this is an unpublished demo I did, I wasn't thrilled with it): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4Art-txE0