Preamp / Eq / Tone / Saturation / Compression / Eq / Tone Pedal??

[hoyager]

Roughly in that order... Is there an overdrive project anyone knows of that has a similar signal flow to this?

I'm after lots of 2nd order harmonics (I think) and a sort of adjustable saturation frequency control. There's a VST plugin called "Blockfish" which I'm always in danger of over-using, which is a compressor (amount and response (attack decay) controls) and saturator and am wondering if this sort of thing can be made into an analog hardware unit.

I want something that kindof warbles on the low frequency stuff rather than distoring, something that would make a drum machine wish it was married to.

Tape's not an option, but from my limited knowledge I'm thinking FETS, compander, germanium.

Is this sort of effect already available on one of the existing boards? It's kindof a dream effect for me, aside from some sort of glorious delay incarnation

Andy

[jkokura]

Andy,

This depends on a few things, like how you define things. For instance, I don't differentiate between eq and tone, they are the same thing to me, and how they operate in pedals is similar. Perhaps one difference is that a tone knob is responsible for multiple eq functions in one knob, and eq usually involves multiple knobs.

Also, it depend in what you mean by saturation. If you want preamp > eq > saturation > compression > eq pedal, everything is possible depending on what you mean by saturation.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by you comment about marrying this to a drum machine. I feel like you need to clarify and define a few more things for me.

Also, you should start brushing up on the understanding you have of pedal electronics. There are many building blocks that can be put together to build just about anything you'd like.

Jacob

[hoyager]

I'm thinking of saturation in the style of driving tape too hard, but being able to control what frequency this happens at, so if you had a 3 band tone control / eq before a tape machine you could choose which band overdrives the tape, so either the bass, mids, or trebles can be overdriven and the rest of the signal remains relatively unaffected. At the same time this overdrive compress the rest of the frequency range a little so becomes more attenuated.

Drum machines tend to sound a bit thin when running them direct, but the same could be said for any digital signal, so an overdrive or saturation with compression helps fatten the sound and make them punchier in a way that is very endearing to the drum machine or standard or percievably thin sounding signal.

So without having to take a reel to reel, which are usually quite heavy, to gigs I am wondering if this can be 'emulated' in a similar way to what heaps of VST plugins have done digitally, but with an analog circuit. (VST's which do this well, which are all free, are the Acrobatics Rombo, Digital Fish Phones Blockfish, and the AtomSplitter Audio Distroyr).

Maybe a sweepable tone control would be the way here, they needn't be separate, but some method of choosing which freq range the saturation would occur, possibly for the pre eq, and for the post, ideally more of 3 band type, but a tone control could suffice if it was 'wide-band' enough. I'm all for use-ablity so if single tone controls could do it...

Does the Serendipity behave in this way?

I feel like it would be a popular device especially if it could be built or had for less than the units which are currently availble go for. AFAIK units include the Emperical Labs Fatso, Anamod ATS-Analog Tape Simulator
Hi-Fi dirt boxes in a way. With so many people wanting analog 'warmth' and old school A/D conversion from old MPC's for instance for 'fat' drum sounds, I imagine something like this (mono though, but full bandwidth) would be in demand from DIYer's.

The Fatpants I've build and modified to be a little darker has this effect of fattening and warming drum sounds / loops, but is a little limited and maybe cuts a little too much out of the very bottom end, although that seems to be the key to fat drums, that roll off of the very low bass frequencies (<50, 60hz)

Andy

[jkokura]

Does the Serendipity behave in this way?

No the Serendipity does not behave this way.

I feel like it would be a popular device especially if it could be built or had for less than the units which are currently availble go for. AFAIK units include the Emperical Labs Fatso, Anamod ATS-Analog Tape Simulator
Hi-Fi dirt boxes in a way. With so many people wanting analog 'warmth' and old school A/D conversion from old MPC's for instance for 'fat' drum sounds, I imagine something like this (mono though, but full bandwidth) would be in demand from DIYer's.

The Fatpants I've build and modified to be a little darker has this effect of fattening and warming drum sounds / loops, but is a little limited and maybe cuts a little too much out of the very bottom end, although that seems to be the key to fat drums, that roll off of the very low bass frequencies (<50, 60hz)

It's an interesting hypothesis that it would be in demand. Usually, if something is in demand we see people talking about it a lot more. I've been doing this for quite a while, and this is the first real instance I can think of that someone's really asking for it.

I have an idea, but you're probably not going to like it. I'm going to suggest that you start using a programmable drum machine on your laptop and then run it through the VST plugin you like already. If you already have a tool, I would try using that rather than trying to create a similar effect in hardware.

I think what you're looking to do is possible, but you're going to need to do a lot of work and put some building blocks together to get it.

Jacob

[madbean]

I'm thinking more along the lines of an optical limiter for this. I'm familiar with the Blockfish plugins and I've used them on a few things, too. Hmmmm.....maybe something along the lines of limiting combined with "state variable" filtering like the BBE Sonic Maximizer. Add in some overdrive and run the compression/filtering in parallel? Like a side-chain?

I'm just thinking out loud here....I don't know if that even makes any sense!

[CRBMoA]

Very crudely, something similar to a well known FSB Kiwi's limiter and the sweepable portion of the Harmonic Energizer. I am still talking a year or two above my pay grade, but the building blocks are there.

cb

[jtn191]

There's a trick in Logic where one can achieve a tape simulator by using the Tape Delay plugin creatively. Similarly, you could get a Strymon El Capistan, set mix to fully wet, repeats at min, and time at min, and adjust tape age/wear/crinkle to how you want it

[hoyager]

Exactly, this effect happens with the companding and overdrive of the delay chip in the aquapuss, but only when the feedback is on the point of self oscillating, and the new information compresses out the old and prevents it from going to far over the edge.  This Strymon pedal sound cool, specially the stereo-ness, but it is digital..;(. and seems to lack the real overdriven sound.

here's the plan so far (thanks for the suggestions)

- fatpants
- bandaxall 3 band eq
- optical compressor with a 'tape sim saturation' circuit in there somewhere, possibly post limiter...
- SV VCF and or tone control with drive out or level control ) such as CRAIG ANDERTONS SUPER TONE CONTROL or a dual filter something (BBE sonic idea, the bass countour sounds great but the trble is a little brittle and hifi sounding it seems)

possibly a a tri-vibe after the comp-limiter, for extra subtle pitch shifty tapey-ness and if I can cram enough information into my brain, an output transformer...

Andy