Just Saying -- the soapbox thread

[alanp]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/84061025/actress-priyanka-chopra-says-a-female-bond-would-be-a-win-for-women

Utter stupidity.

While we're at it, why don't we remake Passion of the Christ, but with a female Jesus? Or Braveheart, with Wilhemina Wallace?

And you just KNOW that if you suggest a gender-bent Sound of Music, say, with a male child minder, and a female Von Trapp matriarch, or Kill Billie, with The Groom, you'd be hearing howls of outrage from the moon.

This is the same basic problem I have with a female Thor in the Marvel comics.

Come up with your own bloody mass-media characters, feminists! Wonder Woman was a good start, and Black Widow, keep on creating strong female characters, and not stealing existing male ones and cutting their wedding tackle off.

[m-Kresol]

I actually would see how that could work. Bond's job description and time setting would allow a woman to fill in. It would need a male moneypenny though

I agree about female Thor though. That is a nordic god, that is a male character. you can't just switch gender and even keep his name. Just doesn't fit. Would make more sense to make a female iron man. a woman could surely fit the suit... stuff like that would feel weird, but would work. Thor, however, was the worst choice of character to change genders.

[Willybomb]

There's a theory that the name "James Bond" is a codeword or assumed identity for the agent at the time, not his actual name.  As a result, there have been many Bonds...  Wouldn't matter too much if it was a chick following that logic.

[midwayfair]

I see no reason that Bond can't be a woman. He's Inspector Gadget for the most part, and if you swap the genders of the bimbos the character gets to remain heterosexual if that bothers people. You could even leave the character male and have it played by a female, because it's frigging fiction. Men played women on stage for hundreds or even thousands of years and no one gave a crap about it. Turn that around and people have a problem for some reason.

Thor is a personification of an idea (or several ideas, including lightning, fertility [!], and oak trees). Arguing that "Thor" should exclusively be male instead of being female literally makes no sense. It's not an animal born with a particular set of dangly bits to which biological sex can be attributed, nor does it require his dangly bits to interact with another set to produce children. He's a "he" by convention and tradition and nothing more.

The Marvel comics version has even LESS of an argument for strict maleness than the myths, because the person who was "Thor" was just a particular person who was able to wield a hammer. There's nothing in the job description of picking up the hammer that says, "Oh and you also have to be a dude."

They're fictional characters. It says more about you than the rest of the world that it even occurs to you to climb up on a soapbox and be pissed off about it.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I see no reason that Bond can't be a woman. He's Inspector Gadget for the most part, and if you swap the genders of the bimbos the character gets to remain heterosexual if that bothers people. You could even leave the character male and have it played by a female, because it's frigging fiction. Men played women on stage for hundreds or even thousands of years and no one gave a crap about it. Turn that around and people have a problem for some reason.

Thor is a personification of an idea (or several ideas, including lightning, fertility [!], and oak trees). Arguing that "Thor" should exclusively be male instead of being female literally makes no sense. It's not an animal born with a particular set of dangly bits to which biological sex can be attributed, nor does it require his dangly bits to interact with another set to produce children. He's a "he" by convention and tradition and nothing more.

The Marvel comics version has even LESS of an argument for strict maleness than the myths, because the person who was "Thor" was just a particular person who was able to wield a hammer. There's nothing in the job description of picking up the hammer that says, "Oh and you also have to be a dude."

They're fictional characters. It says more about you than the rest of the world that it even occurs to you to climb up on a soapbox and be pissed off about it.

Well... there is the traditional ideal that Thor was the SON of Odin. So there is that...

The "role" could be played by a female however, that would entail re-writing the entire myth.

[GermanCdn]

I think the whole Bond franchise needs an update, what that update is I don't know.  I agree with Jon that there's no reason Bond can't be a woman.  Alias was fairly successful in that genre with Jennifer Garner.  The struggle would be that the James Bond character has traditionally been a more mature (read not in their 20s or 30s) character, and I don't know how that would directly translate into a female role (I would suspect that casting would want a younger type character if they went to a female Bond).

The easiest way to open it up would be to acknowledge that James Bond is a persona and not a person in the storyline.  Make the new Bond the niece of Connery or something like that (not a direct familial relation, and have him only in a short spot at the beginning), seems like a way the handoff could be done.  And it wouldn't prevent a future Bond from being cast back in the more traditional role if they had to.

[midwayfair]

Well... there is the traditional ideal that Thor was the SON of Odin. So there is that...

The "role" could be played by a female however, that would entail re-writing the entire myth.

Yes, but calling a god the son of another god doesn't count. It's just words attached to abstract ideas. Which of Thor's mythological actions require it to be male?

Let's look at a few:

1. Drinking the ocean. Well, my wife can drink me under the table, so I'm pretty sure a frank and beans doesn't help there.
2. Banged a giant on the side while married to the earth. Well, the earth doesn't have a gender as far as I know ... and giants come in both genders.
3. Battles the world serpent. I'm pretty sure that your average guy can't do this either, but I don't recall Thor using his penis to smite Jörmungandr in the Edda, so I think we can safely imagine this battle not requiring gender.
4. Makes thunder. Clearly this is either a belch or a fart. You're married, right? So you know that women do both of those things.

I could go on.

[Muadzin]

I'm with alanp. There is nothing wrong with creating a strong female movie character in her own right and franchise. In fact I welcome it. There is everything wrong with taking an established male character and making it female. It takes away from one to give to another. Is that feminism? Is that equality? Are women that creatively impoverished that they can't conceive their own counterpart to James Bond?

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Yes, but calling a god the son of another god doesn't count. It's just words attached to abstract ideas.

I'm not saying that a role of Thor couldn't be played by a female.

What I AM saying is that you should go out on the street and ask 100 random people "Thor is the son of Odin... what sex is Thor?" Hence the need to change a lot of the mytho surrounding Thor. Its not impossible but it would be a challenge.

I personally wouldn't mind a Bond re-write with a female lead. I think it would be refreshing. The only problem would be getting the Flemming/Saltzman/Broccoli camp to sign off on it.

[flanagan0718]

Hmm, Thor(iene) and "Jamie" Bond? I'd at least watch the movie trailers. But then again they di do a good job of murdering Ghost Busters...just saying. 

[juansolo]

I think the whole Bond franchise needs an update, what that update is I don't know.

Hentai James Bond...

It'd be different

Spectre could actually be an octopuss...  oooh the tentacles!

[jtaormina]

I'm with alanp. There is nothing wrong with creating a strong female movie character in her own right and franchise. In fact I welcome it. There is everything wrong with taking an established male character and making it female. It takes away from one to give to another. Is that feminism? Is that equality? Are women that creatively impoverished that they can't conceive their own counterpart to James Bond?

Word. (I agree whole heartedly my African American brother)

[midwayfair]

EDIT: Deleted. The point of this thread is for people to vent, not for me to argue with them.

[alanp]

http://petapixel.com/2016/09/12/ads-london-tube-station-just-replaced-cat-photos/

As someone who loathes advertising, and loves cats, I fully approve of this campaign.

(Although this heretical murmuring of /dogs/...)

[raulduke]

That's absolutely brilliant. I love it 

Whenever we visit London I notice the excessive advertising everywhere in the tube stations.

Particularly on the elevators; advertising folk (also known as 'bastards') know you cannot escape from having whatever latest West-end shite show shoved down your throat.

God knows how the poor buggers commuting every day feel about it... I bet they were absolutely loving this.