Just Saying -- the soapbox thread

[lars]

The problem with these guys is they don't k ow how to do anything else.

"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I'm re-reading Robert Asprin's Myth series. They're satisfyingly consistently mediocre, in that I probably giggle about as often as I roll my eyes or yell at the book.

Anyway, there's a conversation in one of the books between the main character and narrator, Skeeve, and his mentor/partner, Aahz, where Aahz criticizes Skeeve for focusing on being "liked" and getting lost on focusing on trying to please people instead of doing what's right or required, and argues that if people don't like you, they can at least respect you.

So I had a discussion -- I dunno if it's exactly an argument -- but I complained about something and started a lengthy discussion with someone that was at least tangentially political. I thought that they misrepresented what I said, gave long and detailed responses, and concluded by saying that I thought it was a waste of both our lives to keep arguing such a minor point that doesn't affect both our lives. They wrote back that I was nitpicking and just being generally hostile when they were trying to be conscilliatory. So they probably think I'm a total asshat now, because it's im-frigging-possible to hold any meaningful conversation online: If you're thorough, then no one's taking a half hour to unpack what you said. If you're glib you not only can't explain your position but any point you do make is terse.

I mean, it's my fault, I've taken pretty extensive efforts to avoid any overtly political discussion since 2016, when I closed my FB account for the second (and final) time, because I couldn't post a picture of a kitten without my family members bickering in the comments.

So these were my thoughts after I sent first a kind of sarcastic "we're done here" response and then, 5 minutes later, an apology:

Maybe I should just scrub my post history of any other comments I've made in any thread that even touches on politics, whether my comment is political or not. That would keep me out of trouble.

I really wish there was a way to block someone. Should I block someone I don't disagree with but just don't want to continue a conversation with? (I can't block someone.)

I wish I had never started this conversation in the first place, and if I could go back in time, I wouldn't have engaged at all.

Now, I'm not super thrilled with this thought process. It means I don't stand by what I said, that I am inclined to just ignore something rather than even talk about it, and generally it's not super respectable. It's not the first set of thoughts I've had that don't paint me in a good light.

So then today, someone in the COVID thread here, when I complained that some recent comments were a bit inflammatory, said that America's just super polarized and it's nice to come to a place with smart people to get their opinions in a calm manner, but, man, nothing about those comments read like something I would have read on this forum 6 years ago, no matter how comparatively mild they are (I mean, I think if aliens had landed and their only material was the Madbean forum, they might not have been able to tell you who the president of the U.S. was 2008-2016), and I just wonder if I'm overly sensitive now or if other people are completely desensitized to it.

But really this is related to "wanting to be liked." Or at least in my case: I can't do anything with respect. And while I don't exactly care about being liked, I feel like it's almost impossible to discuss anything anymore without someone hating your guts, and really I'd just like to say something once in a while without feeling like I'm pissing half the people reading it off. I'm really sick of feeling like I might have to list my political view bonafides to say anything that isn't rabidly critical of certain government officials around most of my friends, or, as the case may be, criticize something as being blown out of proportion, misunderstood, or outright fabricated.

I really want to go back to a world where I can't tell you who my friends vote for, and I'm not under a constant microscrope by everyone, whether I agree with them or not. Maybe then we won't even have discussions where I feel like every minute I might say something that makes someone hate me for some micronuance.

And since most of the world is online only now, where nuance is too big an ask, everything's just worse. Disconnecting (except for work) would mean almost no outside world contact.

/

I hear you Jon. I feel the exact same way. I know in the past that we have butted heads however, we have also helped each other out for which I am grateful. In the end... I just think too many people let other things (i.e. politics, world views, etc.) dominate their lives. I know people around here (locally to me) that do nothing but talk of these things and it makes me think "Wow... what a horrible life you must lead if you have nothing else but THIS!"

I see you as a stand up guy with possibly different views than I. The difference is, I refuse to ever let that interfere with what we DO have in common which is this fun and engaging activity of DIY pedal building and music.

Its a shame that there are so many people in the world who cannot separate this and allow an all-or-nothing view to dominate their choices of whom they interact with 

[gordo]

Holy crap G_L I think you've just nailed world peace!!!

Well spoken.

This is, unfortunately, the reason I gave up on all forms of social media a very long time ago.  Walking on eggshells is easier in person, and allows enough follow through that I can end a conversation with the same respect I had going in.

[alanp]

This is possibly going to sound really pretentious, but one of the most valuable self-discoveries I made was finding the ability to discern the difference between positions I hold because I honestly believe in that position, and positions I hold because I identify with the tribe affiliated with that position, whether they recognise that or not.

[somnif]

This is an actual political campaign sign in my state. Yes, he is using a gun to spell his name.

Arizona is weird sometimes.

[mjg]

I was wondering what sort of parents would name their child "Demand", but I got there eventually. 

[imjonwain]

I was gonna post about a guy here running for congress who's ad campaign is literally cheeseburgers and handguns.

Instead I'll post the best cover of a song about a ship sinking in a lake.  My parent's listened to WROR non-stop growing up so I heard this alot.

[thesmokingman]

Oh please ... our current guv ran on bedtime stories to a baby about building the wall ... as you might expect we're doing poorly against COVID because we wanted those Memorial Day tourist dollars

[DLW]

This is possibly going to sound really pretentious, but one of the most valuable self-discoveries I made was finding the ability to discern the difference between positions I hold because I honestly believe in that position, and positions I hold because I identify with the tribe affiliated with that position, whether they recognise that or not.

This is solid advice. Everyone is susceptible to confirmation bias; it's human nature. You can only be truly open-minded if you have a mechanism in place to check your own thoughts/feelings. That's difficult and exhausting, so if you don't want to put in the effort, it's best to accept that you're not perfectly open-minded.

Another healthy exercise, is to categorize ideas/statements/observations as true facts, false facts, valid opinions, and invalid opinions. This has been, for me, a useful way to find common ground and have a productive discussion with someone that I (initially) disagree with.

[alanp]

I just ordered a Hakko FX888D. I'm tired of using a blunt 2B Pencil tip for SMD work.

I feel a little dirty, like I'm betraying my trusty old 40W no-name pencil iron.

[jimilee]

Nice!


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[matmosphere]

I just ordered a Hakko FX888D. I'm tired of using a blunt 2B Pencil tip for SMD work.

I feel a little dirty, like I'm betraying my trusty old 40W no-name pencil iron.

We've always assumed you were a little dirty 

[alanp]

I just ordered a Hakko FX888D. I'm tired of using a blunt 2B Pencil tip for SMD work.

It arrived, and I tested it out with six TL074 SOIC16 chips. For SMD, the difference is light and day. I can quickly zip along the pins and solder them down, and not have to tidy everything up with braid later. (I still have to try finer pitch ICs, though.) The iron also heats up in no time flat, compared to the pencil.

I suspect it won't make such a difference with chunky through hole components, though.

[somnif]

I suspect it won't make such a difference with chunky through hole components, though.

I found it helped with my through hole stuff as well. It holds heat like a champ, and I find it more "comfortable" to use than my old pencil iron, both of which helped me clean up my somewhat shaky technique.

Your mileage may vary of course, but I love my 888 (though I really should replace the brass sponge one of these days, it's getting rather lumpy)

[jimilee]

I suspect it won't make such a difference with chunky through hole components, though.

I found it helped with my through hole stuff as well. It holds heat like a champ, and I find it more "comfortable" to use than my old pencil iron, both of which helped me clean up my somewhat shaky technique.

Your mileage may vary of course, but I love my 888 (though I really should replace the brass sponge one of these days, it's getting rather lumpy)

I can attest to this, the temperature is constant, makes things quicker.


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