Aqua Boy with v3205 's

[madbean]

Hmm...I must have mis-read the datasheet. I thought it said 8v on the Compander. 18v is much better, considering the application! In that case, NM----you did not damage the compander.

I would be really surprised if you killed the clock. It's rated at 12v, so frying it at 12.6v seems pretty unlikely. Maybe take it out and re-seat it?

[gtr2]

Yeah, I had to clip my leads to the double delay board for access to the clock driver.  So for now I'm waiting on some 14 pin sockets.  If I build another one of these I'll have the build down to a science.   

I did some work on my free oscilloscope (Tektronix 7904 w/4 plugins) yesterday and now I have a trace.  I just need to learn how to use it properly now.  It's got a lot of knobs and buttons...  I love craigslist.  I've scored some really unbelievable deals through there.  I'm looking forward to properly calibrating my tape delays as well with this thing.

Josh

[madbean]

I admire your dedication to making this work. It's one of the most challenging projects here!

[gtr2]

I admire your dedication to making this work. It's one of the most challenging projects here!

Thanks, I was so close.  If I used single coil pickups I'd be fine.  I just want it right for my worst case scenario, bridge humbucker with no treble rolled off.

Josh

[hoyager]

Thought I'd post the method I've used to attach the dd board to the main board



They're from here http://www.futurlec.com/ConnHead.shtml male headers in the main board, have to be cut from a double row, and 2-pin female headers go into the dd daughter board

It took the third build for me to suss this out..

Sounds like this whole garb is almost about to be superceded...., very exciting

Andy

[bigmufffuzzwizz]

I did some work on my free oscilloscope (Tektronix 7904 w/4 plugins) yesterday and now I have a trace.  I just need to learn how to use it properly now.  It's got a lot of knobs and buttons...

You should find lots of useful info here
http://www.tek.com/Measurement/programs/301913X312631/?lc=EN&PRODUCT=&returnUrl=ct=TI&cs=pri&ci=2280&lc=EN

[gtr2]

Quick Update...

I found that the delay was not working because the v3205 gnd pin wasn't grounding, it was showing .5V.  I traced it back and for some reason the jumper wire under the bbd showed no continuity to the ground pad.  I really can't figure out why and I can't see what's going on without removing the socket (the jumpers are under it) so I just jumped it on the bottom as well.  It wasn't from a cold solder joint because I had continuity from from either side of the jumper.  I may have gotten it cutting the soldered leads to the dd board?  Who knows, anyways I got delay again with one v3205.

I then tweaked the input signal to the v3205 with an additional resistor after c15 and I got a nice gritty, not overdriven delay.  Sounded close to my carbon copy so I was happy.  I then pulled the v3205 so I could put the DD board in its space.

On to the double delay board.  The next step was replacing the first soldered v3205 in the DD board.  It wasn't passing a signal because it took a hit when I had to desolder old pins and solder in new connector pins for the main board socket.  I was careful with the heat, but not careful enough...   It was a real bear to get out, because I still had to be careful not to fry the second bbd from the board temperature.  *Note to self..always socket chips...always...*

I finally socketed the spot and left the original 2nd bbd in. Delay worked with the double delay after calibration.   

I tried a different compander ne570.  It didn't handle the noise as well as the cool audio version did for what it's worth.

Everything was powered at 9v with the bbd's receiving 6.5v.  I may rig it up to run the compander a little hotter with a road rage to see if I can decrease the clock noise when running a longer delay time.  The bbd's and the clock both run off the same power line so I can't run the clock to its max 12v though...  The power to both the bbd's and clock are both based off of the r19 value.

Hopefully in the next couple days I work out my final modifications fully and breadboard a modulation circuit for trial and error.  There are a few tweaks I have in mind for it.  This had been a long build with a lot of trouble shooting.  It makes my other builds seem so easy.

I guess that wasn't really a "quick update" sorry.

For those following the tread for your own aquaboy distortion, I don't have values for my mods yet because I need to work a few things out yet.  But I can confidently say that I no longer have the "overdriven" delay problem.   

Josh

[gtr2]

Ok, so I've got the delay "sound" where I want it but the delay level with the mix at max is lower than I want.  In order to make the v3205's bbd's happy the input signal had to be cut.  The overhead is 2/3's less than the mn3005's according to the data sheets.  I'm gonna have to boost the signal somehow after the bbd's  But I'm not sure if this should be done before or after the compander either.

A couple things to note:

I'm running at 18v.  The bbd's and clock are around 8.8v from a regulator in r19.

I've got a 100kB in for the mix pot. 

The overall volume of the pedal is fine, no volume drop.

thanks for any help 

Josh

[hoyager]

Thanks for the updates man, as soon as some regulators and bits for the roadrage boards arrive, I'll be implementing similar stuff.

I've tried just stock with a 2k2 at R19 and a 470k at R15 which *seems* to be better. I have a 12v adapter but I think its unregulated so don't want to risk it, the output no load measures 14 or 15v..

Andy

[gtr2]

At r15 I've got a pot subbed in there and I've got a resistor in series with c15.  Sorry I don't have any values to share because I was subbing things around till It sounded right and I haven't totally settled on anything yet on the board.

It is a big difference from stock.  The bbd chips are no longer receiving to hot a signal and they are delaying with a normal "grit" to the delays.

Here's a bump for the post bbd delay boost question on my previous post.. 

josh

[gtr2]

I had about an hour to try some things last night.

I removed c28 and soldered in some wires to track to the breadboard.

I built up another gain stage with a mpsa18 similar to the one right before it and put c28 at the end of the gain stage to filter the dc.

The result was pleasing.  I got more clean delay signal, but not quite enough for me.  The first repeat with the mix knob maxed is at about unity gain.  I'd like it slightly above unity gain at it's max setting.

I believe that I'm loosing some of the gain when it runs into the compander.  I'm gonna try removing c30 and inserting it after the compander tonight.

josh

[rhcp311]

Quick question about using the Road Rage board. I bought one of these a few days ago, and I may try it in my Aqua Boy whenever my double delay time board shows up. The first thing though, is that I don't see any spot on the Road Rage's board labeled for a 12v output. Is that what the +RV is? Also, I know the Road Rage is like a Swiss Army Knife type of board, so I was wondering if any of these parts aren't needed if I just want to bump the power up to 12v? I'm sort of cheap, and I don't want to waste any caps or ICs or anything if I don't have to. Haha.

Also, just to make sure I understand, if I use the Road Rage to power the Aqua Boy at 12v, all I have to do is replace R19 with a 2k2 resistor, and plug the road rage into the 9v input on the Aqua Boy's board? Seems simple enough, unless I'm missing something.

[gtr2]

Put a 12v regulator in the reg1 spot and +rv will go to the 9v+ spot on the aquaboy board.  The value for r19 will determine the voltage to the bbd's and clock. 2k2 should be about right, but I used a 9v regulator in the r19 spot.  I did this so regardless of whether I powered the effect at 12v or 18v it would always get a steady 9v (actually 8.8v) to the clock and bbd's.

I'm not sure in my experience that running hotter than 9v is necessarily helping.  I think Brian's logic behind the 12v was to run the clock hotter to compensate for running two bbd's, but the clock runs on the same power rail as the bbd's.  The way to counter this would to run the pedal at 12v, put a jumper in r19 and slip a 9v regulator in the V+ lead between the aquaboy board and dd board.  That would give the clock 12v and the bbd's around 9.  I think you'll fry the v3205 bbd's at 12v...but this would be a work around

I am currently running at 18v, but that may be temporary.  My repeats are no longer distorting but that is due to dropping the input signal to an acceptable level to the first bbd.  I've been looking at the malekko guts of the 616 via FSB.  They've got a gain trim in there.  I think its somehow related to the delay output level to compensate for a lower input to the bbd's.  If I can find a cheaper used 616 on craigslist I'm gonna buy it to investigate how they used the v3205's successfully...  Edit:  I just found out the internal gain trim is for the buffered bypass output.

josh

[jiffy]

Just vero'd a double delay for this and I have same problem too! Yay!!!

Now, if i'm really careful with the trims I can get it fairly clean, however if I strum a chords, It'll distort a bit. I was rather naughty and ran the whole pedal off 12v for about 10sec, I didn't notice any real improvements though. I'll be trying to figure this one out too... The extra delay time so cool though!

[madbean]

Josh,

Any chance of a small sound sample of your current findings? I'd really like to hear exactly what your repeats are sounding like to gauge it against my own.