Working for free

[jkokura]

I read this article this morning, and it reminded me of my own rants about both musical employment and about selling pedals (which I do).

Why is it that people want/expect free things in our society, which is very commercialized and materialistic in nature? I constantly get the 'send me a free pedal, I'll do a demo' emails, and I'm quite tired of them. The quote in that article that stuck out to me was, "I'm tired of the [expletive] idea that exposure is it's own reward."

This doesn't just carry over into pedal building, it rings true for musicians who are constantly asked to play for what works out to be a few bucks an hour, or worse, for free. I remember getting a request from a place 10 hours away to come play at their weekend festival thing (back when I was still touring), and I asked what they were paying. "Uh... hadn't really thought about that," they answered. I politely asked if they understood what it would cost me to come. "Oh, I guess we can get you some gas when you're here." Again, I asked about accomodations, food expenses, and if there was any money for actually doing the 45-60 minute set. "Well, you can set up a table to sell merch or whatever." I don't sell merch, and we all know how many CDs actually sell at shows like that...

Anyway. It's always refreshing to get a gig like I did last month. I played at a local art gallery when they had an opening, some ambient soundscape stuff. Atmosphere creation you could call it. Anyway, they offered $50 for hour long set, so I took it. They asked me to stick around and play an extra half hour after a bit of a break (they liked what I was doing), and I say ok. Guy cuts the check at the end of the afternoon, it's for $75. Says he hopes to have me out again.

Any thoughts you guys have on these issues? I know Jon's talked about this some, but it's always an interesting discussion. I'd love to hear ideas on how to combat the issue without being combative, know what I mean?

Jacob

[Gledison]

Hey Jacob!
I think that happens a lot for art work related! When i was younger i dis some gigs just for the free bar and some food! But yeah, it was for the fun of playing! I think most people think that musicians for example are having fun and therefore can pay little or no money for a gig! What about football/ baseball players?Loads of money involved!!
Another problem migjt be that there are lots of offers in this business! They say: if u dont want, another will accept!
Some musicians are also part of the problem accepting this little payment and reducing the market value!
Im not sure how to end this! Ive seen fantastic musicians that need to give lessons, write jingles, gigs etc, in order to cover their rents!
I dint know what the " musician's associations' do! It should be a threshold of how much per hour an employer should pay! Morevoer, a better regulamention and control!
This discussion will go further.....
Cheers mate

[bcalla]

I agree with Gledison with regard to art - I don't think we as a culture (I am speaking of the US) value art like we did as recently as 30 years ago.  And of course we all know that since the proliferation of the internet, music is free.   

Also, musicians have to compete with the low cost of DJs.  In fact, several outstanding guitarists I know get far more work as DJs than as guitarists.  Very few weddings I go to have live bands any more.

[GermanCdn]

I'm pretty sure if I actually did the math, I've lost money on every gig I've played, but I don't cause that takes the fun out of it.  Carvin had a meme up on their FB page which summed it up for a long time that (summarized) said "Why do you think it's a good deal for me to have 12 hours of band practice to learn the set you want me to play, spend a day setting up and tearing down, and get to split $200 between the band, the sound man, gas and food?"

I've always refused to play for free (with the exception of church stuff, that was ministry, but you can burn out on that real fast when it starts taking up three nights a week plus Sunday), unless it was completely no frills (i.e. acoustic set, me and the singer, three songs, some kind of visibility, usually a charity event or some kind of telethon).  Generally I go in to discussions on gig cost with what amounts to a rate sheet, itemizing off fixed costs like sound guy, equipment, gas, food, plus what the band needs to play.  It results in less gigs, and generally I still give on a few soft items, but at least you're coming away with something.  Once had a guy come out of the crowd after a set, loved the music, wanted us to be the house band on a Holy Land trip,  for no money and we'd have to foot all the travel expenses.  Um, no, pass.

But, there are lots of people who will play for beer or less, and as such, drag down the overall value of the artform for everyone else.  But it's like that in any industry, and regulating it will never work, because someone always won't.

[midwayfair]

Oh, man is this a thorny subject.

I can explain the ultimate source of the disconnect:
Artists will create whether they're paid to or not.

On the buying end: Some people are just insensitive and don't consider what other peoples' time is worth. Some don't think that an artist's time, specifically, is worth anything or even consider that it takes time and expertise to perform well*. Some people actually do take advantage. Some people are just ignorant and don't know what services cost.

[*Quick aside on this: Most people assume that artistic talent is innate and have no concept of the amount of work that goes into it: practicing for 12 hours a day, touring, writing, rehearsing, etc. And for very complicated reasons, this view is encouraged even by musicians. It's mythology. end aside.]

On the artist side, everyone's in this for different reasons. Sometimes these reasons overlap, because everyone's different.

For some people, fame is actually their goal. This is the Pop Star. Not that they're less artistic, but that art is their chosen method of achieving celebrity. They will play for free if you can give them an audience. They'll let a manager take advantage if they can give them an audience. They want people to buy them, not necessarily their art.

The far more complicated version of that is those who prefer playing music to any other life. This is the Artist. Money is only important in as much as it lets them continue playing. So gas money to get to the next gig is important. Enough food to keep you from fainting on stage. Buying strings before you buy dinner. I know several people like this. They know they won't become famous, and they won't sell out on their art to increase their revenue. They simply believe so strongly that what they create is important that they are willing to sacrifice everything toward creating it. They will play for free if they have to, and they will play for little to no audience if they have to. They will probably dislike it. They might feel a little dirty about taking guarantee money but they will fret about people not buying albums or downloading songs for free. They want people to buy their art.

Some people see music as a job. This is the business person. We all know people like this. Some gig to make a little bit of money on the side. Some do well enough that it's not just a side job. Some are good enough that they can do it full time. This group never wants to play for free, and is usually VERY resentful of people in the previous two categories playing for free, because they see that as a direct attack on their business model and can't or won't compete in that way. They want people to buy their services.

Then there's Just This Person. The one who can play for free because it's not their job. Doesn't care about money, maybe not even in general. Usually doesn't tour, except maybe for a couple weeks a year. Performing is fun, so there might be a gig or two a month. Not "selling" anything, even if there are recordings on the merch table. If someone pays for the gig, then that's fine, but playing for free is also fine if that's what's convenient. It's somewhere north of casual, has the appearance of being professional on some level, but whatever the motivation is, music is sort of compartmentalized. This person isn't necessarily untalented, either. I'd bet that this category is doubly frustrating for the business person, because not only are they willing to undercut on prices but they don't even have the all-consuming urge for fame or artistic-y-ness that the Pop Star and The Artist have.

(Guess which category(ies) I am!)

Basically, there's no way to "combat" the issue. Decide what you're worth, and don't accept less. Seek out opportunities that present themselves. Educate people if you must (we can't accept X because our costs are Y), politely decline, and be nice to people. It's a big world and while there are always people who will try to take advantage, there are also people who insist on paying. If someone pays but tries to squeeze you, negotiate back. But decide what you're worth as a musician and stick to it.

One last thought: The 20th century was a massive anomaly for artists. Mozart died somewhat poor (not as bad as in Amadeus, but not exactly comfortable, either) despite having the patronage of royalty. Bach was employed by a very wealthy and powerful church and was a celebrity but wasn't even really middle class. Professional musicians were rare, and professional musicians who weren't homeless street performers (essentially talented beggars) were even rarer. Shakespeare was one of the most successful writers in history, immensely famous as a playwrite even in his own time, and also enjoyed the patronage of royalty, but died middle class and probably lower on the ladder than his father. One of the most famous musicians in Irish history was homeless until he was 50.

The 20th century brought things like copyright law, licensing, and the ability to enforce it as a new form of income, and produced previously unimaginable income for artists of all sorts. The concept of art as a commodity was fairly new ... prior to the 1800s (Charles Dickens and Samuel Clemens were both driving forces in changing this), the way art became someone's profession was usually that it was a leisure time activity for the already-wealthy (or their children) or an artist was spectacular enough that they had the patronage of the wealthy, patronage being outsized payment for labor to ensure an artist's basic needs were taken care of so they could create art for people that couldn't afford to pay them what they should actually cost.

[Bret608]

I agree about the possible under-valuation of art, but I think there may also be deeper sociological issues at play. It's a sad economic fact that the rich or well off pay less for basically everything. I think that's what leads to the constant expectation of free or reduced prices in our culture ("swag" is the term that seems to capture it best). So the idea that "exposure is its own reward" is disingenuous at best, even if on the surface it seems to be symptomatic of the proliferation of online culture and social media.

Oh man, sorry for the punditry!    But I think about issues of social injustice and economic inequality often. I haven't sold any of the pedals I've built, and I've never played music live, so I'm not able to speak to this from experience in that way. Hopefully this isn't too much of a derail!

[Bret608]

Oops, didn't see Jon's post before I hit "post." You hit the nail on the head about the commoditization or art and artistic-ness.

[selfdestroyer]

I agree with lots being said above and many of you that have commented are either professional musicians or builders or both.  I would expect like any service rendered there should be a transaction in place. Buts as a learning builder like myself and a bedroom rockstar, I find that doing stuff free or "the cost of parts" have really helped me to hone my skills and get me to a place where I can be proud to sell my items. I still get excited when friends ask me about modding a pedal or building a pedal "like" this one.. kind of thing. I also do repairs when ever possible simply for the fact of learning. But at some point I will need to start recognizing self worth and charging accordingly.

on a side note. I am a IT Administrator and have been in the computer field for 20 years and I still get the "friends" that call up only when they need something. Its disheartening to know that I am only called upon when something is broke.

Cody

[culturejam]

I can explain the ultimate source of the disconnect:
Artists will create whether they're paid to or not.

I think this is really the crux of the whole thing. Trying to square up art/performance with most other types of business activities is always going to lead to frustration.

I had a bunch of other stuff typed up, but it would have probably just piss a lot of people off. 

[midwayfair]

I had a bunch of other stuff typed up, but it would have probably just piss a lot of people off. 

well now I wanna hear it. I'm always interested in honing my skills at pissing people off. It's, like, my one god-given talent. I often do it accidentally with spectacular results.

[GermanCdn]

Part of it too, and this ties into Jon's post, is what you want to get out of it.  In one of the bands I played in, we had three of the four personality types in the band (two Just This Guy, one Artist, and one "I've got nothing else going for me, but I have a drum set").  It ultimately lead to the demise of the band, as the two Just This Guys had good paying day jobs and as such couldn't/wouldn't go on the road for a month at a time playing lousy clubs like the other two guys wanted to (Canada is a great place to lose money on tour, it's a long freaking drive between cities).  To his credit, the Artist and his Artist wife now has a six album recording contract, is currently the opening act on many nationwide tours, and has far exceeded any of our early 20s rock star aspirations.  However, he also lived in his car for two years.  The drummer is currently playing in some live theatre troop, which, for the life of me, I can't understand without chemical assistance.  Not to say I don't still have huge Artistic aspirations (currently in pre-production for a new project with the other Just This Guy), but our time value thresholds are much different than the other two.

[pryde]

I get a lot of this stuff as well running my small guitar/amp repair shop. Most often it is younger guys calling and asking if I have any "extra" pedals I want to give them, or they want to trade me a first-act, POS guitar in exchange for fixing their amp or fretting a guitar 

Not that I am against bartering and I do it on certain occasions but it really is a true insult to offer someone a turd in exchange for their hard-earned expertise and time. 

[jkokura]

Great discussion thus far. I totally agree with many if not all the statements above. However, what I'm really wondering about what we can do about the mentality that exists out there, the pervasive thought that "music/musicians are cheap." The article/blog I read this morning is not the first I've seen in the last month, nor even the second. Some big name, fairly famous speakers/artists/musicians often get asked to work for free when the caterer, lighting guy, and even the sound guy and driver are getting paid, and paid well.

When we have a room full of 'Just This Guy' people who are contributing to a problem, how do we politely begin to raise the bar in the public's mind? Is it a series of blogs? Is it a quiet refusal to sell out? Is there nothing we can do?

I think this %100 applies to the pedal industry. Here I am, trying to create a quality product and offer good customer service, but every time I turn around I see another clone hack selling Klones for $99 including shipping. While I'm amazed at that, I know it's not a sustainable business. But the market bears it, and in a sense, I lose business because of it.

Just the other day someone was posting about 'making and selling BYOC kits.' There are lots of guys doing that, similar things really, and aren't realizing the damage they do to the rest of us that are really trying to make a go of it.

Jacob

[Bret608]

I could see how this is more pervasive in music. I was just reading this book "What You Want is in the Limo" that documents the mega-tours of the summer of '73. The basic argument is that, while rock stars in that era for the first time entered the ranks of the elite/super-rich, it was really the music industry and all its peripheral businesses that really started making out like bandits. Could we still be seeing that kind of pattern, and if so, how has it evolved?

Over the summer I re-read the essay "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" by Walter Benjamin. It's old but applicable to what we're talking about.

[GermanCdn]

Clearly, when it comes to pedal building specifically, it's going to be really hard to weed out the bottom feeders, if for no other reason, then they either don't have a business model or don't value their time in the least (because let's face it, that's the difference, a run of PCBs from OshPark costs everyone the same, and we mostly source our parts from the same places, so the net materials cost is roughly the same).  A klone vs. klone war will just be a fight to the bottom if all one has is the same as the other.

So, from an outsiders point of view, the easiest way to compete is to make something a little bit different (and make sure the difference is visual).  Using a klone as an example, to put a single knob with a mosfet boost and a footswitch would cost what, $8?  But it looks completely different, is completely different, and could probably be upsold for another $30 (of course, the klone factory wouldn't be far behind to catch up, but you'd establish a new layer of clientele that might come back for more later).  When the copycats catch up, throw in a flipper switch and a diode switch.  Little cost difference, big visual difference, and some hype difference.